How do I enjoy the MBC fight? What am I doing wrong?

#12

I think Kidd definitely wants to make some changes to LH in the future…but I do doubt it’d be in the very immediate future.
And otherwise I’ll just redesign MBC myself

#13

Ok so I just finished typing this and only now realized what a f*cking text wall it is, mostly sort-of-but-not-really on topic (flag if you really want to cuz this kinda deserves it. I trust ur judgement)
Reflecting, this is really just my entire thoughts on the state of the endgame (except shatts and mineshaft) and the vital combat update.

Ya know what? I’ll be nice and put everything but the TL;DR in a drop down menu. Read if you want (its about 2900 words)

Text Wall/Rant

I completed my first mbc I tried with vital combat, but it was extremely scary.
I remember, it felt very much like when I was first learning halls, and I needed to really learn what to dodge, except much much worse.
The fight, as you said, is extremely reliant on instakill/debuff spam, which makes it terrifying, for me at least.

First impression: I actually liked it! I felt like I was truly rewarded for hard work.

Then, as I tried a couple more, something that bothered me about the nest with the puri nerf came to mind: The meta was just to facetank everything, and spam puri to remove debuffs. The way the fight is designed is so that it is a bullet hell, which is what the game is, but its also extremely reliant on the debuffs.
The way I see it, quiet/silence was put into the fight as a way to counter puris, so the other debuffs would actually be meaningful.
However, all these shots are packed close together, which you can avoid with focused micrododging the entire time, and its always been like this. But, players are human and humans are imperfect. We can’t avoid everything. (yes, some extremely skilled players can do it consistently, but I highly doubt dodging absolutely everything all the time) I see it that puri priests were a crutch for us, as we got better at dodging, we still inevitably get hit, but the puris would fix our mistake. Unfortunately for the dungeon, the community came together, and figured out the best way to do it is not by using the puris as wiggle room for error, but almost the entire strategy. Just tanked every debuff in the dungeon? No problem! Priest uses puri, and now everything is gone! (except pet stasis)
Yes, you can argue for or against discord servers until the end of time. I get it. I am an event organizer in the halls server and a raid leader in the fungal server, so I do have pro-discord bias. I am extremely happy that as a gaming community, we came together to conquer end game dungeons, and provide (relatively) safe conditions to farm for these endgame items, but also, I believe that has made the endgame almost laughable, and that the loot holds basically no flex except for your patience in endless grinding.
I’m going to stop myself from “the discord question” to get back on topic.
Anyway, now, puri is completely out of the picture. So what you have now is a bullet hell boss fight, with the vast majority of the shots dealing a status effect. A puri priest is no longer a crutch for you to fall back upon, unless you are the puri priest.
Welp, I’m about to get back into discords again, but briefly this time. Now, the strategy for mbc is to just dodge everything. Most groups have mediocre players in them, who are not capable of that (myself included) because of the watered down experience they had in the server. That’s on us. Players like me shouldnt have easy access to endgame dungeons, simply because we aren’t ready. Although I must say, I believe (this probably sounds arrogant but whatever) that I am at a level to be able to do the cultist hideout, and the abandoned mineshaft in extremely small groups (like anywhere from a solo run to 10 ppl)
Back on track, mbc is much harder than those other fights. (I do believe crystal entity feels rather rushed, however and should be more difficult. keep in mind that I have not done a crystal since vital combat so I can’t speak for it now)
The inherent difficulty in mbc, in my opinion, is the heavy reliance on debuffs (I have the same complaint about shatters and nest, but the entire dungeons not just the bosses)
I am absolutely repeating what I said earlier by now, but the removal of the puri has revealed that the design of the boss (and a large part of the endgame, i.e cultist hideout, nest, shatters,) are flawed from the start. They’ve been built (in my opinion) around just one item, but the presence of that item completely trivialized it.
Now it is difficult, but for the wrong reasons. In my opinion, sure, maybe alter shot patterns slightly and work on reducing the debuffs, and you could very well go ahead with it.
I do like the basic idea of the mbc fight, but (note that I am not knowledgable about designing dungeons/bosses at all) I would like to see it completely reworked, mainly with the debuff spam.
It made sense when the puri was the meta, so if the puri fails in their duty, the difficulty is ramped up exponentionally. I said this earlier in this post, but that is a severe design flaw in my opinion, designing a fight based on one item. If an item is that strong, maybe consider nerfing it?
Which they did!
I do love that puri was nerfed, and I know the community is extremely torn on this. Some absolutely hate the nerf. Some are in full support of it, but, I may be wrong, but I’m fairly certain that I am with the majority of the community on this: puri needed a nerf, but deca nerfed it much too hard, at least in the current state of the game.
I would propose one of two changes to the puri.
One of them, based on what I’ve read, most widely wanted by the community, no heal but keep puri.
The other, which I would prefer, is nerf the healing, but change the purification to only work on a few debuffs. Do not have ideas on which ones, but in my opinion, this would be a great direction for puri to take.

I also love the new vital combat, working to make clearer lines between who can access endgame dungeons and who should access them. I think that there are so many players who think they are ready for mbc, because it was so much easier with puris and healing rampant. Now, those players will be weeded out at some point or other in the fight most of the time. Sometimes, they will do it well and will get through but most of the time won’t. Sadly, there aren’t bosses similar enough to mbc for them to be “suitable practice.” So now, there is a huge gap in progression in the endgame. Either you are ready or you aren’t and there isn’t really a boss to fight that can truly prepare you (i mean oryx 3 but hes even more difficult and less accessible)
Anyway, in my opnion there is another flaw in the game there: such a huge gap in progression. (although it is completely fair to argue that to some, crystal entity may seem like a “training fight” for mbc, but I’m much more confident against ce than mbc. Again, makes me seem arrogant, but I do need to acknowledge that because of my experience as a fungal rl, I understand crystal entity much more, so to me, it doesn’t seem like a precursor to the mbc fight.)
Let’s look at the endgame boss fights, ranked (in my opinion) by difficulty. Excluding sanctuary minibosses because I simply have not fought them enough to accurately rank
Sentinel
Archmage
King
Cult
Beekeeper
Crystal Entity
Killer Bee Queen
Crystal Worm Mother
Void Entity
Marble Collosus
03

Out of these, actually nest seems more like a precursor to mbc, yet to me, nest has been much more accessible, and I have been trying to dodge the queen’s attacks even during the mseal/puri meta.
So, nest is another argument as a step to conquer before mbc, yet to me, it seems that even if you are proficient at KBQ and CE, MBC is still a huge leap in difficulty. So many more things on the screen, so many more shots, so many debuffs (and yes, i know that all of KBQs attacks, save armor piercing, inflict a status effect. which is a huge flaw with nest but I won’t get more into that)
so much more damage, and you need to do more.
In my opinion, deca should’ve first implemented vital combat, then slowly worked on adapting the endgame dungeons (basically just nest mbc, and maybe shatts) to be less punishing with debuffs, but harder in different ways. I mentioned this earlier, but removing debuffs from some of the shots at the mbc fight could work wonders. Maybe tweak the damage a little as well. I would say deca could slowly reduce the risk of instapopping (not just in endgame but mid-end in general) as vital combat does provide a ground for a true bullet hell to be built on. Normally I’d transition this to a pets tanget but this is all I will say: I know pets are controversial, but whichever side you are on, you can’t deny that when kabam monetized pets, they probably saved the game in the moment, but from then until vital combat, they completely broke the game for people who had maxed them.
I’ll stay away from pets now.
Anyways, with the ground now set, deca has already changed the endgame to actually feel like a bullet hell, where dodging is imperative to survival.
If you don’t dodge, you lose so much of your healing, especially now that tomes are nerfed to the ground, and necro is the best healer. Except that necro’s heals are based on the targets they hit, and most of the time in the endgame, there is only 1 to hit.
I mentioned earlier that I think vital combat should’ve been implemented before oryx sanctuary. why? Because it is actually one of the dungeons least affected by it (based on what i’ve heard) and the other endgame dungeons already have huge flaws to be addressed, which are made even bigger by vital combat/priest nerf. Mostly nest as a whole and mbc tbh. (although shatters has huge issues of its own, which aren’t relevant to this topic. I could write an extremely long post only about shatters if I so desired)
I’ll hold off on my sanct discussion for now, and focus on motmg. As you know, this is when the meta change happened. Puri is ruined, heals are scant. Debuffs are much more impactful. And what is the first dungeon to test this new system (well other than testing but whatever)? that’s right! Nest! A dungeon solely built on inflicting debuffs to the players. Granted, they did tone down the debuffs a while back, but it’s still very harsh. So basically, there is a new meta introduced, and now the endgame dungeons are much much more dangerous. I’m not saying that as a bad thing. I am happy that they are, to some degree, not pushovers anymore. The biggest issue, is that nest is still at its core, a dungeon designed to debuff. Getting hit once has a much harsher punishment than just taking damage. It could slow you, paralyze you, or confuse you, making you much more likely to get hit by other shots. It can also armor break and pet stasis, reducing your survivability, which is already dropped due to vital combat.
And the rest of the shots punish your dps: daze, weaken, quiet, silence.
The only shots that don’t deal a status effect are at the beekeeper, or armor pierce, which is always enough to put you in combat and drop your survivabilty.
Of course, some of these issues are just coming to the fore due to the vital combat update, but given that it was, in my opinion, almost required for player retention (especially those with 100/100/100 pets) it is an issue to be addressed.
The next event dungeon was shatts, but again, I’ll control my rant here. Basically, almost everything in shatts inflicts a status effect as well and 2/3 of the bosses are very easily cheesable.
And that brings us to the halls event, the last topic in this post. I agree with your assessment of the mbc: the basic design is so flawed because it was built with the puri in mind (i would guess) to have as a crutch. And then the face tanking meta emerged, so damage was tweaked to make it more punishing, even though people rarely died in organized raids unless they were a.) lagging or b.) extremely new to the dungeon.
As you said, we actually get to experience the fight “in its full glory.” Unfortunately, as you mentioned (and come to think of it, I did as well further up) it doesnt encourage active play, but rather, getting farther away so you can actually have room to dodge. Again, I do must admit that some players, including myself, and, from reading your post, including you, simply aren’t the elite players that we need to be to actually consistently fight mbc now. Had sanctuary not been released yet, I would be fine with that, as lh was “the” endgame dungeon, the climax of the lore.
But before the vital combat update (aw f*ck I couldn’t keep the halls recap as the last topic. kudos to you if you read the entire monstrosity that is my text wall above.) The sanctuary was released. The new endgame dungeon. Oryx himself, the mascot of the game, is finally the most powerful enemy in it. Deca wanted to do that. And deca nailed it. Oryx 3 raid groups still see very high nexus/death counts during runs, only few have the skills to get through consistently. I love that, even though I don’t see myself completing an 03 anytime soon. But anyways, I think the release of this dungeon before vital combat was not the best idea. Of course, deca had been working on it for a long long time, and players were super excited to see Oryx in his most powerful incarnation, so I do not blame them for releasing it before vital combat. In fact, I would hope that if they had started working on vital combat in conjuction with 03, they would release vital combat first.
But as it is, we got the sanctuary, outshadowing lost halls as the flex dungeon (even though lh flex died long long ago) and THEN we got vital combat, but no drastic changes to the old endgame, to keep the content well, endgame and challenging, but also built around vital combat. The way they did left us in a weird position, where a completely new game mechanic was implemented, drastically changing the way the entire game is played, yet the game was still designed around the old meta. And that, in my opinion, left mbc much more difficult than it should be. Right now, if sanctuary were not released, mbc would be the hardest boss in the game. (void is much more forgiving than mbc with vital combat in mind) But oryx 3 overshadows it. Which is good, oryx should be the pinnacle of the game, but goddamnit mbc could easily be the hardest boss in the game if sanctuary wasn’t released. I know this will get me a lot of hate from people saying “mbc is supposed to be difficult. its an endgame dungeon. You’re view of how difficult endgame dungeons should be is watered down from the discord spam.” I do agree with this. I would say I, and most of the community has kinda turned into whiny brats when endgame stuff actually becomes difficult. You are free to use my words against me here, but I will say mbc shouldn’t be this difficult, at least not in the current form. I’ll be honest, I’m fine with the difficulty of mbc, because it is supposed to be hard. I just think it’s hard for the wrong reasons.
And one last thing before the closing words and tldr (i swear it’ll be the last one you can castrate me if it isn’t) Is why I think sanct is least impacted by vital combat (and yes, I know this is completely irrelevant to the OP, but I’ve been ranting so why not, it’ll be a sentence or two. Oryx Sanctuary is an endgame bullet hell dungeon done right, in my opinion. There are lots of shots, with tight gaps, but they are possible to avoid. You actually need to play actively instead of shrinking from the fight, so if you’re dodging poorly, well, pre vital combat or post vital combat, you are basically already screwed.

final words
And there you have it. I went WAY off topic (feel free to flag lmao) but I honestly just took the opportunity to get my ideas out there, with sorta connected tangents that I absolutely did not need to take but did anyway because yolo I guess and I do think they added at least something of substance to this post. Whether related to OP or not. Thank you to everyone who endured this!
As I said in the beginning, this is a highly opinionated post. You are completely free to disagree with my opinions, and I am open to discuss, as long as you stay respectful to me and my opinions. I promise I will respect you and yours. We cannot have a meaningful discussion if someone is treating the other with disrespect.

TL;DR

Honestly don’t blame you for skipping my text wall.
I agree with OP that the design of MBC is inherently flawed with so much instapop, high damage shots, and status effects. When vital combat was added, the behavior of the boss was not changed, so MBC is an extremely difficult boss, but, in my opinion, for the wrong reasons. It’s great that steamrolling is gone, but changing the entire meta to a dodging meta from a tanking and steamrolling meta without changing the content is unreasonable, especially when the content has the inherent flaws listed.

So if you skipped the final words as well, I am willing to have a discussion with anyone about this as long as they are respectful of me and my opinions. I will be respectful of you, and yours.
Thanks for reading, have a great day!

#14

Also, you may have noticed that I don’t tend to post extremely long posts like that. I mentioned that I could write another long post about my issues with specifically the shatters, let me know if you would like to see that! (it will be a separate thread, and I will link it here, if you want it)
That post honestly took longer to type than some of my English papers : / I do not blame you if you would prefer not to read it, but its there if you want it.
If a leader/mod comes by and decides that the post is too off topic, please let me know. I’ll create a new thread for it, but keep the TLDR.

Thank you for your time!

#15

I did read the whole thing and would be happy to talk more about it if you make a separate thread. You’ve gotta learn how to make paragraphs though, my man. I will talk about the MBC stuff here since that is what is on topic.

I think that is precisely their plan! They already started, by removing blind from MBC and darkness/confusion from void. Who knows if a major overhaul of LH is in the works (I doubt it, with the other projects going on), but tweaking bosses is definitely in their to-do list. This includes implimenting status immunity times for various bosses (and the whole game), which hopefully will roll out before too long.

I have a strong feeling you have not done a void since Vital Combat came out. Unless you have a really strong group, it is actually insane. The rate that minions spawn combined with crossing the rivers being much more sketchy means that things can get out of hand very quickly. I have only done one Void so far since the change, but I had to nexus after we got to a 4 shrink and were surrounded by big bois. We honestly might see massive changes in strategy to accomodate for the Vital Combat changes (which is somewhat true of MBC as well, but not in my opinion as noticeable).

Just wanted to remind you that the only reason King is even really possible is because you can go to a corner of the map and ignore most of the shots. This is the most broken fight in the game right now imho.

I will save other opinions for if you make a thread of your own.

#16

I wasn’t even aware they did this! I knew that had tweaked nest debuffs, though.

I actually have done a void in vital combat. It was the same run as my first (and only) post-vital mbc.
Thank you for correcting me on this, as the group I was with must’ve been quite strong. There was one instance of a minion overflow (4 medium bois and several small) on one platform, the raid leader had everyone go there. I was one of the first there, and until the rest got there, it was extremely sketch.
My overall experience, however, was that the mbc was difficult and more stressful. Let us not forget, though, that as I was the vial that run, and backup had nexused earlier, there was much more pressure on me.
I have attempted a couple others without the pressure of being vial, but I still found stress levels higher than that of when I was in the void.
So, based on my pure experience alone, I still rank MBC higher than void.

I am working on that right now!
I am editing the original post, giving a space between paragraphs as you suggested, and I am also adding headers for each.
Because it will be a separate thread, I will go into my issues with Shatters as well.
Once the post is ready, I will edit this comment and add the link
Thank you for the reply!

Edit: I’m heading to bed now, you can expect the new topic up by this time tomorrow, although if I don’t have too much schoolwork, it’ll be sooner.
Thank you in advance for understanding!

#17

Thanks for your thorough response! If you think yourself opinionated, you may find we share similar ones (to the point there’s not much I can add without it simply being an echo):

On status effect spam:
https://www.realmeye.com/forum/t/opinion-the-nerfs-and-changes-might-be-bearable-but-have-no-place-without-fights-being-rebalanced/62889/9

On how difficulty is achieved:

On being ‘bullet hell’ (earlier comment I made elsewhere):

It becomes more and more apparent that realm sorely lacks the fundamentals of a proper bullet hell: tight movement and tighter hitboxes. Meanwhile, it has been trying harder and harder to emulate those bullet hell games. I don’t think realm has the foundation to be one (and works alright as the ‘pseudo’ bullet hell game it has tried being), and will just get more spastic and awkwardly difficult the harder it keeps trying to be one without even meeting the basic requirements.

#18

would rather slam my head in to a nail than do lost halls. i feel the normal enemies also highlight the same problems of the MBC.

i don’t really care if they do a full redesign (they should- it sucks atm) or slight tuning of the existing content since not every dungeon is compulsory. but for whatever one PLEASE remove the confuse shots oh my god.

#19

I disagree that the normal enemies highlight the same issues. Ok, yes. the entire cultist hideout is debuff spam, but I would say it isn’t unreasonably hard. On that note, I also think cult is too easy for an endgame dungeon as of right now.

But of the other enemies, yes, spooky is a huge offender of the issues as well. But then you have quiet and pet stasis in slime rooms, but those are avoidable, and are for the most part a nuisance. Petrify in golem rooms, while is obnoxious, is nowhere near the level of MBC.
And then armor break from crusades. In my opinion, the armor break isn’t a huge deal because either the crusade is mostly dead when you get to the, or you’ve pushed so far that you are basically screwed anyway. Or, they are rems and another cru comes in or something, but the armor break, most of the time, will not change whether you live or die. When it’s afflicted, cases in which it would kill you would probably kill you regardless of armor break.

Also, MBD sucks. I agree fully with that.
And so does agonized titan.

#20

Well, as much as it might seem like an unpopular opinion, i’d defend MBC, tbh, being that i think it’s the best boss outside of Sanctuary, and honestly even better than everything except O3 himself and maybe Beisa.

Now, to explain why:
Leucoryx, Dammah and Gemsbok all have their own major issues that prevent them from being excellent, only good or pretty great.

  • Leucoryx, Gemsbok and Dammah all have lower attack variety than length, making them pretty repetitive when you know them already;

  • Many things hit too hard in general and feel balanced around MSeal, no idea why Deca doesn’t just do the sensible thing and remove MSeal’s current effect, rather than keep forcing it to be an almost prerequisite to take reasonable damage from Sanctuary shots.

  • Leucoryx counters are especially bad in the damage department, way, way too punishing, being able to oneshot you with beams, and yet outside of counters Leucoryx has a few attacks that stick out as being really easy, more specifically, the wall of V shaped shots is trivial to get the pattern of down, and the boomerang shotgun gets completely shut down by a Trickster.

  • Gemsbok has alot of repetitiveness in particular and an extremely harmless attack (the rotation);

  • Dammah doesn’t have any major issues asides from lack of attack variety admittedly;

  • Beisa is the closest to MBC, imho, he’s just too much easier than the other midbosses, but his sheer attack variety and mechanics make up for it.

They’d have to be way, way too weak to not send you to In-Combat, and you know what? You can become so bulky that only the armor piercing shots and a few easy to avoid high damage ones will send you to In-Combat, how? Melees + Mseal, which leads me to my next point.

They need to do alot of damage to pose even the slightest threat, now that Mseal is still absurdly broken, even post-nerf Mseal is arguably more broken than pre-nerf Puri, melees can easily get 120 def, it’s to the point where even most of the shots in the fight won’t send you to In-Combat, letting you tank the fight even harder and honestly, nerfing cooldown and/or radius is worthless, because raids can effortlessly bring multiple. If anything, the damage is still too low for a meta with Mseal existing, but it would be infinitely more balanced to remove group armored than to keep tuning everything around this one godlike item. Don’t know why DECA is stubborn on just reworking the thing.

This i absolutely agree with and it’s downright stupid they haven’t added focus movement yet, honestly.

*PLEASE remove confusion from the game.

Uhhh, every issue MBC has, tomb has something way, way worse, the rage phases are completely undodgeable and melee unnaproachable in a way that MBC isn’t, and especially Nut rage for spamming a practically undodgeable paralyze shotgun while chasing you with enough bullets to pop you, the bosses can overlap way too hard and turn into even more of an undodgeable spamfest out of your control with a group that isn’t good at managing their damage, and Geb rage running away from you is even shittier for melees since he can also easily pop them and is undodgeable too.

Realm endgame bosses being chaotic is a strength that fits the mechanics, not a flaw, Sanctuary bosses also tend to be chaotic, especially O3, and it’s simply because of both fast characters, and because having too many static patterns in an MMO boss can make the boss too learnable, too perfectly learnable, rather, to the point optimizing the fun out of the game becomes much easier given the millions of times raids will run said boss. Other MMOs’ raids are not comparable at all, because for one, they’re raids, and most importantly, they’re pretty much turn based RPGs, not bullet hells.
As for Gungeon and Isaac, Gungeon has much slower characters and an emphasis on rolling through shots as opposed to going around them, so it’s only natural there’s less chaos, and Isaac… well, the rooms tend to be small, the characters are kinda slow, and there’s slippery movement, the bosses can’t afford to be chaotic or fast there.

As for why i think MBC is so outstanding:

  • Appropriately good attack variety for his length, about 18 attacks;
  • Mix of set and chaotic patterns force more raw reaction and being on your toes while not being quite unpredictable;
  • Can be a consistent threat even with raids in a way that every other endgame boss except Sanctuary ones is failing at even right now, seriously, just do a Fungal, it’s MSeal tanking and speedkilling every part of the boss.
  • Void is also a consistent threat, but in a lazy designed way, due to the generic, easy and uninspired attacks that are only a threat because they do insane damage and DPS wall minion flood.
  • One of the handful of bosses that can punch through Mseal, sometimes;

But of course, MBC is not perfect, as for what i’d fix;

  • Remove group armored completely, and never readd it, ever;
  • Remove confusion completely;
  • Swap survival and void phase in positions, because void phase is anticlimatic by comparison;
#21

Ok from what I gathered after vital combat mbc is a really big problem people are dying left to right.
It mostly came down to how mbc was poorly design with vital combat, that it what we know but what about cult and void?

I can only guess that void maybe even worse, and cult is fine?

#22

During vc testing, where vc was even more punishing, I soloed cult as a mystic using only cult staff, yeah it’s fine

Except from that one place in the lab, make it exclusive to there

#23

This is only part of it. I would also bring up halls discords and easy organized runs as the reason. Many of us (including me) are not familiar with all the shot patterns of mbc, because most of the time, we could just tank it and be fine because of an overwhelming amount of heals.
Yes, vital combat is a huge part, but let’s not forget that discord servers are equally as important, even though it is realistically the only way to get to teh endgame

#24

its not that it was poorly designed, it was the way people fought him. before vital combat people would follow keys and mbc cuz they could tank. now they cant and runs have changed so that you are in top right most of the time

i did a void after vital combat, it took a lot longer but that is mostly due to hp scaling. its pretty much the same fight

#25

honestly i agree, i never liked the fight before outside of doing it in big groups but it was understandable why it was like that, but now with vital combat its nearly impossible to dodge everything, and the fight becomes more of a never ending chore of "gotta make sure to kill all nearby towers again so i have any remote shot to hit mbc and to have mild peace for the next 30 seconds. I was hoping they would remove the status spam puke all together but i guess not.
Its stupid that literally EVERY single projectile in mbc sends you into combat even as a knight with almost 80+ def

Ideally like i said i would just remove the status spam alltogether but a QoL feature that i think would make the fight x10 more bearable without changing it too much would be to have the towers only spawn ONCE for every phase, this would mean you actually get rewarded for dealing with them by making the arena cleaner instead of just having your time wasted because you know its gonna respawn in less than a minute so why even bother.

#26

I very much get what you mean, it is also the other reason why people are dying.

If Deca does decide to make every dungeon hp scaling the same as o3, then guild runs will probally be more relevent. While discord servers will be really good for casual players. Guild runs could also really be like the new “discord”. I’m mostly thinking that guilds (idk black bullet and h?) would really make profit becuase of the hp scaling Deca is maybe going to apply.

o3 hp scaling to every dungeon=
Bigger groups may have a harder time
Smaller guild like runs will make profit.

#27

Huge vomit of 150+ damage shots spewing constantly from every part of the room. To the point where the only dodge locations are often not in the room at all. It’s similar to me!

#28

I’ve actually heard that survival is easier if u push up but I very much doubt that. I’ll have to try taht next time

#29

It’s true, and makes perfect sense if you think about it! If your are against the wall, you only are moving in one dimension, and you are likely very close to the tentacles that block one way. Pushed forward a couple tiles, the density of the shots is basically the same, but now you can move in two dimensions.

#30

Update: I ran over 50 MBCs. There is no way to enjoy it.

My final haul is a loot drop potion and some pots from 30 hours of gameplay; I want to die.

#31

Thats because drop rates are much lower than they (imo) should be for an endgame dungeon, because they were balanced for the steamrolling meta, so having drop rates suitable for intended difficulty would be too common, when it was made much easier than intended difficulty.