Politics ( ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡°)

#587

If a regime says they’re a democracy but only authorizes one single political party to present a candidate for the elections, it’s not a scotsman fallacy to call them liars.

#588

I meant my previous statement

because obviously, North Korea doesn’t practice “true” democracy because it’s not a democracy at all, like @RMGnoob pointed out. Which is why I Sarcastically said that fallacious statement, seeing as its used as a diversion tactic to not have one’s argument challenged.

(since im big brain and [mentally deficient] I’ll give an example to what I mean. So by agreeing with “North Korea isn’t a true democracy”, you’re agreeing that North Korea is in some way democratic, just not the correct version, which imo is incorrect. it’s like agreeing with someone that Canada isn’t truly communist, when they never were in the first place. That and the statement itself usually means that whatever is being dismissed as not “true” whatever, is in fact a version of that whatever, just not the version they agree with or doesn’t suit their narrative).

And now you see why my joke was funny, so please laugh now or [ I will report your account to Chinese authorities and lower your social credit score, comrade].

(I had a brain aneurism

#589

they don’t

They are quite proud of supreme god leader and make it clear no elections will ever be held to change that fact

#590

North Korea is formally known as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK)

#591

“United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”

Is actually not a kingdom and they dont claim to be an actual kingdom like Saudi Arabia where the monarchs actually hold power despite having it in their name

such as north korea who also does not claim to be any sort of democratic system

Back the main point china is and has always been communist even if it does not fit into your personal window of communism, there exist many branches as it has existed for over 100 years now it evolves into many forms

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_communism.html

You cant really call them liars since they never lied in the first place they have never defined themselves as a democracy despite having it in their name refer to great Britain

#592

thanks for the link, pretty interesting read so far.

though I wouldn’t say it was always communist, just that most of it’s modern history has been communist.

#593

Also the ruling party is the communist party of China

#594

I think the primary argument is that it doesnt matter what they call themselves, what they do defines what they are

#595

Well they define themselves as communist and that’s pretty much their core value

#596

sure, I could have the core values of a murderer and call myself as such, but if I don’t murder people, am I a murderer?

Likewise, does China have all the tenets of communism?

#597

So china is communist because the call themselves communist, but north korea isn’t democratic despite of them calling themselves democratic?

#598

Alright well I hope I dont get critiized for my “wall of text” but this is going to take some explaining

Pointless comparison since china does in fact have the tenets of communism

Suppression of religion
collectivized farms
The goverment owns all the means of production
Is a single party state

Karl marx believed that communism and religion can not survive together

Karl marx also talks about Judaism, and notably makes many anti semetic remarks

he has a book called " On the Jewish Question"

He said all other religions would need to forfeit their beliefs but the Judaism would have to forfeit their beliefs and their economic stranglehold

He believed to have freedom most religions would have to forfeit their belie
This was because he viewed the Judaism as controlling vast swaths of the economy in all societies which of course is not true.

And this then makes it very easy to blame the (Judaism,I cant say the J E W word on the forums which is shocking) when the economy goes down the toilet much like hitler and joseph stalin did.

Karl Marx though it was entirely fine to strip away the basic freedoms of people and force upon them his own iedology which he believed would free them

So lets see Karl marx the founder of communism encouraged oppresion and smashing the rights of people

Ok well China has that one down

lets look at what else Karl marx believes.

"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can
be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes
tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They
have a world to win. " Karl Marx


(see for yourself)

Yes from this quote it is clear that he was quite fine with using violence of any guide to achieve his goal of revolution

He believed that a revolution did end with the overthrow of the government that it was in constant motion so to continue that revolution you would need more violence and more suppression of people to free them from the chains that bourgeois like @RMGnoob has set forth upon them and blinded them to the truth of a proletariat paradise

O and china definitely has those tenets

See the thing is communism is always leads to a dictatorship because that is what was intended by its creator and its why communism ALWAYS leads to single party dictatorial rule. It is by design to be that way.

china is communist and they call themselves communist

and north isent democracy and they dont call themselves democratic they call themselves communist

also lets just clear this up now regarding the word democratic in koreas full name. It does mean what you and others are trying to force it to mean.

North korea is a communist state and would never associate itself with western ideology and western terminology

조선민주주의인민공화국

This is The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

This part of the sentence is where the “democratic” part is

조선민주 = Korean Democracy

Korean democracy Again this has nothing at all to do with what Americans and other western countries refer to as democracy as for one its being prefaced with the word Korean and two its being translated into English

But either no, Korea does not refer to themselves as “democratic” aka electing a president and freedom and all that

It is starting to seem that way at least, with communism the Scotsman fallacy is an extremely popular idea

“no thats not real communism!” It seems nothing is real communism :thinking: how is that possible?

#599

except they do

and there are also various other examples of states that are a democracy on paper, while being an totalitarian state in reality

#600

Expect they dont

I just explained it but ok I will explain it again in more detail.

Take a look at this for instance

12 communist countries used the word democratic in their names

The meaning is not the same for them, they are not using the word like Americans french Germans and all other westerns do.

Merely look at what i said previously about north Korea how it the democratic part is Korean democracy in Korean

It is much the same case for all these other countries, democratic does not mean what you are saying it means

and here is a great example of that

venka2

1994-1992 they were communist

and they never claimed to not be communist just because they had the word democratic in their name

and when their named changed and no longer had the word democratic in it nothing else changed, they were still communist

Democratic, peoples republic, peoples socialist republic.

It is all the same to them, never did think o when our name is this people will think we are not communist because to them it was abundantly clear just like with north Korea.

as I have said previously communism comes in many forms that means many names and many varieties but it is still communism, this can be seen as every continent has had a communist country or communist revolution at some time.

At the communism that exist in China may not reflect or suit the communism in Cuba as they are incredibly different places of the world. For instance many communist countries enforced atheism but in Cuba Catholicism remained very prevalent.

Well this is an entirely different subject as North korea does not call themselves a democracy like the west gladly touts themselves as, In north korea communism like many other previous countries communism the economic, political and overall the lifestyle of the people.

The coldwar and other elements have made communism into all encompassing bag. So they would never call themselves a “Democracy” democracy referring to what is seen in the west because they hate the west and would never want to have any political similarity to it

the world is merely translated and misunderstood translation at that

#601

Marx’s greatest failure was not realizing that communism is basically a modern religion.

Instead of a monarch who claims to represent the will of God, you get a dictator who claims to represent the will of the people.

Instead of pacifying the people with the promise of an eternal paradise, the communists tell them this dictatorship thing is only temporary and eventually we’ll achieve peak socialism and create a paradise on Earth.

Same mechanisms, same results.

That’s because Marx himself was of semitic origin.

It wasn’t rare for J E W S at the time to completely forsake their origins in an attempt to assimilate into society. Think of it less as a genuine hatred for the J E W S and more as a personal identity crisis.

That’s true but how does this work in the case of China? Do you have any arguments that would prove they are in fact a capitalist state?

#602

Agreed, I think anytime you try and force upon people an ideology it becomes its own religion

And what blows my mind is even with all its failures I still have fellow countrymen who look fondly upon those times( and this idea is much more highly prevlaent in farther east slavic countries like belarus and russia) Though it is mostly older people, nostalgia can really be a blinding force

Despite his intentions with what he said his words encouraged people like joseph stalin to commit atrocities upon Jewish people though of course he had additional influences for doing that

#603

I already regret getting involved in this but the main point was that the “they’re communist b/c they call themselves communist” is nonsense rather than making a statement about whether the chinese government is chinese or not

#604

@TROLLDLLR what did you start

#605

IDK man, I didn’t really say anything

#606

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