That’s RNG in a nutshell, and it’s a big part to why people still play the game. An unexpected rare white bag gives you motivation to play the game. However, if I got 1000 Herms without a jugg, that doesn’t stop me from getting a jugg in the future, nor does it demotivate me because of that.
I think that this is the part that we differ the most; your perspective on white bags is that you should get them by default, while my perspective is that you shouldn’t be able to get them by default. You view white bags as something you “earn”, which I view them as an occasional surprise.
Duping is a reason to this particular case though. Duper could dupe juggs, for instance, and make them worth much less than they should be. A jugg that might take on average 1000 hours of play time to get may be equivalent to the market price of just 10 hours of farming. This would effectively make getting a jugg less exciting, instead of getting something that takes on average 1000 hours to obtain, you got something that you could buy with pots in 10 hours. As you stated, games are supposed to be fun. I wouldn’t find the game fun if whitebags lost their ability to surprise you with a rare item.
Here’s the question, though – how does this affect you?
If one group has fun from dropping these white bags, they can still drop them.
If one group has fun earning their items, they can buy them.
It feels to me that you’re happy because you dropped a white bag because it’s rare and something that other people don’t have. I’ve noticed a lot of people recently finding fun out of flexing items against other players, and to me that’s not what rotmg is about. It’s a game to me, not a dress-up simulator.
no offence, but that statment is stupid and always makes me mad when I see it, people act like duping is this super easy common thing when it’s extremely hard and almost nobody knows how to do it. Plus duping is honestly a non-issue, duping doesn’t cause giant price decreases like people try to say it would if UTs became tradable, it wouldn’t. Decas pixies and ST spells are duped all the time by people who know how, but it doesn’t cause a price decrease because there aren’t enough people who know how to dupe pushing them into market, if anything duped UTs would be on RWT sites exclusively and would cost a ton.
tl;dr duping is a non-issue please stop trying to act like it would be a legitimate problem.
What he’s saying is usually used in response to people saying that they don’t want tradable UTs because trading for the UT doesn’t give the same feeling, which is a stupid argument because you could always just go and waste a couple years farming to get your single event white drop, don’t ruin other people’s fun because you don’t want to be tempted into trading for UTs.
fucking this, stop trying to prevent other people from having fun because you want to feel like a god with your 5 years of in-game time.
Because most people who know how to do probably also has the brains to figure out that deflating the market probably wouldn’t help their cause.
The problem arises when someone doesn’t know this and starts selling ogmurs for 2 life each.
Although this hasn’t happened on a mass sale yet, that doesn’t mean it won’t. When and if this happens, the economy will be completely screwed up, and something will have to be done.
An example of this happening was with the incident with ammys a few years back.
Also: if duping didn’t affect the market at all, how come decas are only around 10 life? It’s ridiculously low considering how easily obtained life is nowadays.
Exactly, that’s how we know for sure they’red being duped, and that’s my argument, we know they’re being duped and they’ve been duped ever since they were released, why aren’t the prices dropping?
If duping were as big a problem as people make it out to be why would prices stay the same for so long?
Exactly, the people that do dupe aren’t attempting to ruin the market, if it hasn’t been a problem for years then why are you so sure they would try to ruin the market if more items were made tradable.
also, what do you mean by ‘their cause’ ?
How do you know someone would do this, as you even state later this hasn’t been a problem for a long time so why would it suddenly become a problem as soon as we can trade UTs?
yes…
… and no. If it hasn’t happened for an extremely long time then why try and use it as an example of a thing that would be a problem?
If something like this, which would be similar to a swatsec-tier attack, Deca could easily rollback the game and fix the problem, if they’re quick about it we would lose a single day of progress at most.
Which one?
Was it an incident in which a duping method became public? if so that’s not relatable to what we’re talking about.
never said that, Im just saying that the affect it has on the market isn’t even close to what people try to make it out to be, and in general it’s not a problem that people need to be panicking about all the time.
exactly, and why were they only 8-10 life back when they were readily available in-game?
that’s not the problem you should have with this, the actual problem with this is the fact that you can’t get them in game.
also, life prices aren’t really fucked up, look at mana and then you can complain about a potion’s prices being absolutely fucked.
Also, who’s alt are you? I haven’t seen anyone banned recently except for book who went away willingly.
the only person I can think of is xxerz or whatever his name was.
The price of deca’s is staying the same because of a heck ton of duping. Do you know how many characters die every day? Some of those all have decas. So people keep on buying decas, an expendable resource, yet the price stays the same. Where are all of those new decas coming from? Duping.
Imagine this. Someone made 100 potato chip bags (decas). Say these were the only potato chips in the world. People buy the bags and eat them: the bags would be gone pretty quick, and nobody would have them. But if someone got a hold of a way to make more bags, then people would be able to keep buying the bags.
The proof isn’t that the price is the same. With no new decas dropped, the price would raise and keep going up. The proof is that the price stays the same, even though no new decas are dropped and people die with them. Without duping, there would soon be few or no decas left. With duping… we get what we have in game, with a constant supply.
Edit: to give you a scale, I went through realmeye’s recent deaths and saw 8 decas in just the last 4.5 hours, on public deaths (only about half) and level 20 characters.
That means about 70+ decas gone everyday when you consider that there were probably a lot more decas on private deaths. If no new decas dropped, do you think there would still be any decas a couple months after they stopped dropping?
This would mean that they dupe about 70+ decas a day, if the supply is staying constant. I don’t know how long duping takes.
yes, but even if many people find ways to duplicate these chip bags they still remain pretty uncommon and the prices stay the same, the people don’t try to raise the prices (for whatever reason) and they don’t have the power to flood the market, so they just sell them to people so they can enjoy that delicious bag of chips.
The price is the same, the same as what? the same as when they were fully droppable.
Why are the prices the same as when they were fully droppable? why didn’t the prices sink when they were droppable? the prices are the same as they were a little while after they came out, why didn’t the dupers make the prices drop to hell if they were as big of a problem as they’re made out to be?
Yes that’s what would happen in a perfect world, but until Deca ports the game to Unity that will always be a problem, it’s just not as big of a problem as people try to say it is.
That’s proof that dupers exist, Im not arguing against that, I’ve said constantly throughout this conversation that dupers do exist, they just aren’t the big scary monsters people try and make them out to be.
alright…
what do you mean by this? could you explain please.
that’s an extremely dishonest number, with your original 8 per 4.5 hours only 43 Decas would be killed off in a day, you’re assuming that private profiles make up another 39% of the Decas lost per day.
You’re acting like Im saying there aren’t any dupers, there are, I’m not arguing against the existence of dupers I’m arguing against the idea that they’re mass-producing machines that could make an item that would normally cost atleast 50L cost 2L.
Again, kind of a dishonest number.
The methods probably don’t take long but they’re most likely not easy so they have to do it multiple times for one dupe.
Proof for what? Dupers exist? I never said they didn’t.
First: you make some good points before this, I think I misunderstood what you were saying.
By only about half, I mean that about half of the recent deaths were private, so I couldn’t see their equipment. I assumed that some of them had decas, and thats what pushed the number to 70+ decas being lost to death. Not trying to be dishonest, just throwing out a number for the private deaths. (Again, so many private deaths)
I’m just theorizing here.
If they try to sell more than people want (demand < supply), then the price goes down, meaning less profit for them per deca. It might be time-consuming to dupe each one, so not worth it to try and dupe and sell more at low prices.
Again: The price of Decas is determined by supply and demand. Since the price stayed the same and the demand definetly didnt get lower, we can conclude that the supply stayed the same as well. So (decas dropping ~ decas dropping and being duped), which means that the vast majority of the supply is coming from duping and if duping wouldnt exist, the price would be mucher higher.
Exactly the same would happen if any other ut would be unsoulbounded.
About duping: Dupers, like people who make fake currency, can’t flood the market. They can only release enough into it to sustain its prices. Otherwise, they can’t profit from it. Which is precisely why the price of a Deca has remained the same for so long. Clearly, this means duping is a thing. And very much so.
HINT for those whose egos are preventing them from understanding this very simple economics problem/principle (hell, it’s the basis for capitalism, how do you not know this?): This is why the market isn’t flooded and why SB exists; the dupers don’t actually care if the market value is its worth. They only care if they can maximize profits. If that means flooding the market with top UTs, then they will. For a Deca, 8L is about as much as is reasonable, which is why they are doing that (and because they can catch a lot of people… if it was like 10 UBHPs, no one would buy one… and if it was 1L, it wouldn’t be worth their time to dupe it). [Also, if you noticed, when Decas were droppable the price went down a few lifes… ]
I think, if it replaces the old set, they should make the new set tradeable for a short period of time before making it SB. This allows for people who care enough to buy it up and prevent duping and the likes which are mentioned before. (I mean it looks good enough to “ruin” the game for newer players if they get it and makes some other things almost obsolete… so it should at least be partly SB if not entirely so… It’s sort of like not having endgame UTs drop from the tutorial chicken; it would ruin the game)
If it does not replace the old set, it should be SB. No question. I don’t even know why anyone would think otherwise… STs are basically UTs, but made in sets.
** For those who think everything should not be SB… I hope you realize that the game will quite literally die if that happens. Most people don’t have the time or the will to grind out an event white; they’ll just buy it. In fact, almost everything in the end would be merching or trading and not playing the game. Whites, I would say, is the driving factor of the game and taking away the specialness of it ruins it for most people.
I see, although I don’t think the privated deaths would account for that many Decas lost, as most people that make their graves private are n00bs that can’t afford Decas or super rich bois that have a million omnis and crowns to use instead.
What profit are they going after? the only people looking for profit would be the guys at RWT sites, which would mean a lot of those Decas are actually coming from RWTing.
Yes, I’ve already talked about that and that’s why we know for sure duping is happening, it doesn’t go against the point I was making though, Im asking why the prices didn’t drop due to dupers back when Decas still dropped, we know for sure they were duping them back then, but the prices didn’t ever really drop.
Again, Im not at all arguing that duping doesn’t exist or that the prices of Decas would go super high if duping didn’t exist, Im arguing against the point that “dupers would make ogmurs and juggs worth like 2 speed”
What? The prices wouldn’t drop and if the item was removed from drop tables (wouldn’t happen to anything except seasonal reskins) the dupers would keep it at the same price? That doesn’t sound bad in any way.
yes, exactly, these people don’t have the manpower to actually break the market like people say they would, the only way that this could be possible is if they heavily publicized a duping method, but that would just cause the duping method to be patched immediately and Deca could easily rollback the servers by ~a day in order to fix it, not much would be lost.
RotMG items /= real life currency, the only people this argument works for is the RWT sites.
Yes, this is well known, I’ve personally said this at least 50 times on this thread. (/exaggeration)
Again, this literally only works for RWTers, the dupers who don’t RWT could just dupe whatever they want, they don’t give a single shit about the market price.
When did this happen? I don’t remember this at all, the lowest I remember it getting was 6 life after a (shatters?) event.
How?
Oh no! people will be able to aquire items they want without putting an absurd unreasonable amount of hours towards it! how unbelievable terrible! How dare they think they should be able to get a super rare and prestigious item such as a jugg? they don’t even have 5 years worth of in-game time!!
Source please, this definitely doesn’t happen in any of the alt-realm sources where you can trade UTs, where is literally even a speck of evidence for this?
Fine, don’t make UTs tradable, just make them not so unbelivably rare that it takes people 5+ years to get one fucking item in a permadeath game.
stupid argument, literally “But some people want to be special and they don’t want the normies to get the same items as them!”
Just. Dont. Fucking. Trade. For. Them. it’s literally that simple. If the people who want to remain special with their dropped UTs they can just add a trade-counter on whitebag items, that way people got got the item as a drop can still feel special and people who don’t play realm 24/7 or are super unlucky can actually use the items we want to use items that would usually be locked behind 10,000 hours of play time can actually get the items without destroying their entire life for them.
If you’re so against other people being able to play with your special super-rare cool kids only items you’re genuinely shitty.
If you don’t want UT trading to be added because it might tempt you to play with an item you want, you want UT trading.
If you just want to get UT items as drops then you shouldn’t be against this at all, just don’t trade for them, be like @GHZD and get your ‘legit whitebag list completion’.
Stop trying to hinder other people fun because you either want to act like a prestigious dickwad towards other people or because you don’t want to be tempted to play with those dirty traded UTs.
You’re misunderstanding my point. My point is that it would not benefit them to flood it, which is why they won’t. Not that they can’t.
Yes, RWT will be an issue, especially since it means Deca will lose money on keys popped to grind it. In any case, dupers, I would suspect, aren’t very good at the game, and die often. By sustaining the prices of a Deca and the likes, they are able to quickly max themselves after a death. So there is a point too. Also, they seem to like flexing these things…
Duping for yourself ruins the game; you basically become a semi-admin. Only RWT would make sense to be duping at a high constant rate.
I noticed this quite a lot during the recent Oryx events; Decas are usually going for 9-10L and dropped to 7L at one point…
You realize that most people will end up just trading and merching since it will be faster than going out to grind an event white… which will be supplied by the very RWT dupers (let’s be honest, there will be people buying them). And it also ruins the reason why so many people would want to grind dungeons (I mean… Deca’s profits would be much lower… just look at the number of keys and things popped every day… and that would mean less content, servers, etc.)
The other problem is that most people will not bother grinding out a jugg or cdirk. And having everything and anything will ruin the fun. Those items aren’t supposed to make you insanely OP… just to enhance your gameplay. It’s like having a present. It’s not a right; they’re supposed to make you happier or feel lucky (and let’s be honest, the feeling of knowing not everyone has it contributes to it).
(I suggest you don’t mention this… alt-realms are technically a violation of the TOS and can result in a ban… since is sort of suggests you’ve played on plenty.) It’s mostly because they [probably] don’t have an active merching community. And most things are [from what I’ve heard] in fame, so… it’s a bit harder to merch. (And given people are generally a cost-reward machine, I would think most people find it faster to grind an item out there than to buy it/merch it? Probably because they don’t have an established merching community? Don’t quote me on this; I don’t know much about alt-realms…)
Again, UTs aren’t a right. They’re just meant to enhance your game-play. You don’t need a Jugg to play a Warrior well. You don’t need a CDirk to play a Rogue… They’re just cool items that change how you can play. I mean… look at the Bloody Cloak… that’s so situational. Conflict… might as well be the ST Orb (before the update?) Ogmur is very situational (I think everyone would agree stuns are usually better). QoT is also just a fun situational item that can change your playstyle. None of them are necessary. I personally think they’re designed to be something like a side-reward for going into the realm and clearing things. Not like an Acrop or something that is almost necessary to play any Melee class (I know other UT/ST armors can be used, it’s just that it’s something you can’t exactly play without)…
I’m not against people from getting things. I personally don’t have most whites. I have so few whites: like… 20? (I had to feed most off them while I still only had one vault). I would love to have an Ogmur or Jugg or QoT. But by making it just a merching mechanism, you take away the specialness of having it drop and the incentive to do dungeons. By allowing UTs to be traded like this, new players will get bored quickly. The only actual purpose would be to grind out fame. And only older players would bother doing PPEs and NPEs and things. Also, less revenue for the company. I really don’t get why you’re so salty about not having a Jugg or Ogmur or QoT or Cloak. I have the Kage from this recent event (my only event white). You don’t DESERVE any whites. Just because you’ve played for 5 years doesn’t mean you should get an event white.
Hm. Interesting you should call me a dickwad when you’re describing yourself. And also, you have no right to anything. Deca is not your parent. Getting whites isn’t essential. Being a spoiled kid who thinks they deserve everything is stupid. *hint hint Get real and understand it’s simply not viable without overthrowing the entire current system instead of complaining and raging about your “right” to a white bag.
UTs should be soulbound, not even a discussion tbh. honestly I think a UT trade weekend every few years would be kinda nice but definitely not full time. STs should be tradeable imo. ik they’re “UTs as a set” but having the newer STs unsoulbound wouldn’t be a problem. many of the old STs by Kabam are insanely OP and there’s no restriction on those other than being extremely rare drops. The new ones are a lot more balanced and about 90% of them aren’t even that good anyways. The only new ST set even worth using at this point is the necro one and the skull and staff are still situational. the other sets are too situational and have 1 or 2 items worth using while the rest of the pieces are garbage. Take the Bee set for example, the ring is a worse nile, the armor takes massive att and def for a little extra dex, the trap is the plague poison of traps and the bow is decent at best. Having things like these unsb would be fine because several of the items won’t even be worth their rarity and price. the only reason to have these sets is for flex. and to take the argument from Horus, duping is a lot less of an issue than people say it is. a lot of people make it out to be an economy destroying force but the fact is that 1, people who can dupe will keep the supply the same as to not have a price drop and maximize profit and 2, not many people even know how to do it.
THANK YOU
UT items are meant to be situational. If you don’t have UTs, you still should be able to play a class. Therefore, you do not need UTs to enjoy the game. UTs are a lucky reward, not an essential item soulbinding is denying us.
