Soulbound STs

[JimdaFish]

I think the issue is that everyone is already convinced that they themselves are right, and thus dismiss the perspectives of others before really hearing them out. Thus the same arguments can be made time and time again, and no one will be convinced to switch sides.

[HorusKane]

This could be easily alleviated by not trading for said ST’s. The feeling argument as to why ST/Ut’s are not tradeable is easily skirted around and thus is not valid. Why are you trying to hold back people who wish to play the game as they wish?

holy fuck who cloned me lmao

[Ezth]

This could be easily alleviated by not trading for said ST’s. The feeling argument as to why ST/Ut’s are not tradeable is easily skirted around and thus is not valid. Why are you trying to hold back people who wish to play the game as they wish? The only valid concern at this point is duping.

Remember, your not the only person playing the game. Even if you aren’t trading for a ST or something, the thousands of other players who do want it will.

I might be a dumbass, but I’d like to ask what good comes from unsoulbounding items?

[TROLLDLLR]

Remember, your not the only person playing the game.

Your primary objection is that it will take away the luster of gaining a UT item. You are in the minority, and even then your concern can be alleviated simply by not trading for said UT items.

Even if you aren’t trading for a ST or something, the thousands of other players who do want it will.

And I encourage that. If you have enough capital to trade for an ST/UT, and you aren’t lucky enough to gain said ST/UT, I see nothing wrong with trading for it.

You can’t make a smartphone on your own, so you go and exchange money for one. Same concept, except that life pots/decas/UBHPs or whatever are a stand-in for cash, whereas the UT is the smartphone.

I might be a dumbass, but I’d like to ask what good comes from unsoulbounding items?

It allows for people who aren’t lucky enough to play certain classes in a new way.
Some primary examples are Dbow archer, Jugg Warrior and Ogmur Knight.

[HorusKane]

Even if you aren’t trading for a ST or something, the thousands of other players who do want it will.

Okay? and? how does this affect your experience? it makes those thousands of other people happy and allows them a variety of gameplay styles that are normally locked behind an extremely shitty luck-lock, which could cause someone to literally never get an item they want just because they aren’t lucky.

Why ruin those thousands of peoples’ experience because you just want to feel special?

[Leohe]

Look, ignoring every other argument, there’s one solid reason why STs shouldn’t be tradeable. DUPING. It makes these items which can be as good as whites, and sometimes even better, easy to obtain for everyone. It also promotes the fucking sites that put spammers all over nexus. I personally would totally support the STs being tradeable, and whites too. However, Duping kinda ruins it all.

We can finish this dispute when it finally makes sense to make them tradeable, after the end of duping (probably never ) Or check out my The Auction House (Token Points) (Self promoting I know but I made it to deal with this issue) It’s a WIP. don’t judge too much

[HorusKane]

Look, ignoring every other argument, there’s one solid reason why STs shouldn’t be tradeable. DUPING.

??? how am I ignoring it? nobody I’ve responded to has used literally any arguments about duping other than the claim that duping today is much worse than a while back, which is absurd.

It makes these items which can be as good as whites, and sometimes even better, easy to obtain for everyone.

where are my pixies selling for 2 spd?

It also promotes the fucking sites that put spammers all over nexus.

People will always buy from those sites, why destroy a large function within the game because a small minority of players will buy items from third parties?

honestly im not that against RWT overall so I don’t care if it ‘promotes’ them.

However, Duping kinda ruins it all.

I go over this all the time, and I’m not going to create an essay on why duping isn’t nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be like I have on some other threads, but I’ll give a short bullet points on my stance.

• Duping methods are very uncommon, and the only few left currently are known by a small group of people at most, usually sold to RWT sites.

• Duping doesn’t actually cause items to drop in price, the only example of this currently is the Deca, but that’s a very fringe case, as it was removed from all drop tables entirely. The price of them didn’t lower, overall it raised a little and sits at around 8 lifes. Other STs such as pixies still go for around 8 lifes, and the prices only go through large changes during chest events or events that lower the value of a life.

after the end of duping (probably never )

With deca going through and rewriting the client entirely most of the current duping methods probably won’t work anymore, and it’ll be overall easier for them to patch them out, as the code will be much cleaner and they’ll know exactly what everything does. So, if with the Unity port duping is fixed, you’d be fine with SB being removed?

Or check out my The Auction House (Token Points)

Skimmed through it, this seems like a very out of the way method of implementing SB trade, just removing the soulbind would be much easier and better overall imo.

Also, would those tokens be directly tradable? SB duping is a thing, so what if people duped the fuck out of their tokens and destroyed the market causing the price of everything to skyrocket to absurdly high unattainable prices for people that are just starting out.

they would also become entirely invincible with the divine tokens.

This ruining the market would be much more likely and probable than unsbing everything ruining the market, as you can see with the people that get pumpkin juggs on day one and full valentine sets within 2-3 days, if someone wants they could destroy the market, as their token gain per dupe would grow exponentially, you don’t dupe one Deca and then start duping 2 decas at a time, and then 4 like you would with tokens.

(Self promoting I know but I made it to deal with this issue) It’s a WIP. don’t judge too much

It looks like a somewhat cool idea, but it’s too out of the way and any issues you have with unsoulbinding are much worse with this method than just straight allowing people to trade.

[Puckinen]

There are too many people with wrong opinion…

[Ezth]

Your primary objection is that it will take away the luster of gaining a UT item. You are in the minority, and even then your concern can be alleviated simply by not trading for said UT items.

I feel like a majority of players would actually enjoy the feel of getting a UT instead of buying it. My evidence here are all the people who seem to genuinely happy in the White Bag thread.

And I encourage that. If you have enough capital to trade for an ST/UT, and you aren’t lucky enough to gain said ST/UT, I see nothing wrong with trading for it.

I see, we should benefit people who grind LHs 24/7!
If you wanna benefit players who grind out pots, adding the option of getting UTs that doesn’t drop from the dungeon doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

You can’t make a smartphone on your own, so you go and exchange money for one. Same concept, except that life pots/decas/UBHPs or whatever are a stand-in for cash, whereas the UT is the smartphone.

Except making a smartphone is completely different from grinding out snake pits or some other dungeon.

It allows for people who aren’t lucky enough to play certain classes in a new way.
Some primary examples are Dbow archer, Jugg Warrior and Ogmur Knight.

You don’t need some fancy smancy item to enjoy a class, and in some cases might even make players more stressed out, considering they are now harboring a rare item that they probably spend most of their wealth on.

Okay? and? how does this affect your experience?

In the same way leechers do.

it makes those thousands of other people happy and allows them a variety of gameplay styles that are normally locked behind an extremely shitty luck-lock, which could cause someone to literally never get an item they want just because they aren’t lucky.

hEY gUYS, i rAN 200+ oF aN eASY aS sHIT dUngeon tHAT tOOK mE 20 sEconds to Do, leMME uT tRade.

i also find it kinda weird how you want to promote someone getting a white from a dungeon they may or may not have even done.

Why ruin those thousands of peoples’ experience because you just want to feel special?

its fucking rotmg, there is reasonably nobody that will have their “experience ruined” from you getting a white bag.

[JimdaFish]

What if UTs were kept soulbound, but the droprates for event whites (which seem to often be the cornerstone of any argument for un-soulbinding) and other rare white bags were raised, meaning that people would still require luck to get them (it’s an RNG-based game, fer cryin’ out loud), but it wouldn’t take years and years of farming to obtain them.

Additionally, events similar to the ones over Halloween could happen more regularly, where slightly nerfed, reskinned versions of rare items could be obtained by players as a reward for farming for a long period of time (showing some dedication), while still allowing those who had the luck of getting the item in a “legitimate” fashion to have the experience of owning a non-reskinned, more powerful version. Just a thought.

[HorusKane]

I feel like a majority of players would actually enjoy the feel of getting a UT instead of buying it. My evidence here are all the people who seem to genuinely happy in the White Bag thread.

we aren’t saying to make whites guaranteed drops, they’d still be rare and most people would still be happy to get them as drops.

idk about you but I’d be happy to get a pixie as a drop even though I can buy them.

I see, we should benefit people who grind LHs 24/7!

there are much more efficient ways to get potions.

If you wanna benefit players who grind out pots, adding the option of getting UTs that doesn’t drop from the dungeon doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Wow, you did some sprites and got defense? well you shouldn’t buy any old tops with that because sprites don’t drop old tops!

You don’t need some fancy smancy item to enjoy a class,

We don’t need it, but it would make the majority of us gain much more enjoyment from the character.

in some cases might even make players more stressed out, considering they are now harboring a rare item that they probably spend most of their wealth on.

If you’re worried about losing something then keep it in your vault until you aren’t worried about that any more.

it’s much more stressing using a really rare item now, considering you don’t have the ability to get it back unless you happen to get lucky.

In the same way leechers do.

Leechers actually have a negative effect in dungeons now due to HP scale, how do people that have rare items directly negatively affect you?

making you not feel good about having that same item is a dumb answer and is just a greedy ‘Im better than everyone else’ response.

hEY gUYS, i rAN 200+ oF aN eASY aS sHIT dUngeon tHAT tOOK mE 20 sEconds to Do, leMME uT tRade.

If someone has fun doing that then let them, just like merchers, how does them having fun take away from you having fun when they aren’t doing anything that affects you directly in any way, hell that hardly even indirectly affects you.

i also find it kinda weird how you want to promote someone getting a white from a dungeon they may or may not have even done.

anyone who gets to the end game has most likely done every dungeon, forcing them to run the dungeons they don’t like in order to get an item they do like is dumb.

I like prot, I absolutely hate tomb.

its fucking rotmg, there is reasonably nobody that will have their “experience ruined” from you getting a white bag.

Could you explain what you mean here, one of us had a stroke.

What if UTs were kept soulbound, but the droprates for event whites (which seem to often be the cornerstone of any argument for un-soulbinding) and other rare white bags were raised

I would prefer lowering the drop rates and unsbing them.

meaning that people would still require luck to get them (it’s an RNG-based game, fer cryin’ out loud), but it wouldn’t take years and years of farming to obtain them.

it’s better than nothing but it’s still not ideal.

this idea needs to compete with the people that are flipping out about destroying rarity up there tho.

Additionally, events similar to the ones over Halloween could happen more regularly, where slightly nerfed, reskinned versions of rare items could be obtained by players as a reward for farming for a long period of time (showing some dedication), while still allowing those who had the luck of getting the item in a “legitimate” fashion to have the experience of owning a non-reskinned, more powerful version. Just a thought.

No opinion on this honestly, I would still just prefer to be able to trade for the specific item you want without having to rely on a factor that is 100% out of your control.

I don’t want people to be handed out whitebags for free whenever they want, I want people to have the ability to work to gain the item they want without having to rely on their luck.

[Leohe]

Oh I’m not saying you’re ignoring the argument. I’m just saying, if one chose to ignore the other arguments, there’s still one kinda big issue. I’m also not saying that duping causes massive drops in prices. However, in my personal opinion, the items problem, for their, rarity, would be worth over 8 life if not for duping. As for your question about the Unity removing duping, I’ll be okay with the removal of SB for the majority of items. Of course SB pots, feedpower, skins, chest unlockers, and backpacks will still be SB. Otherwise, I believe almost all items should be tradeable.
Finally, for my own idea, I somewhat assumed that SB duping was even rarer then standard duping. I guess if duping was removed, we could just fuck all the restrictions, the P2W aspect, and make my idea more of an additional instant market (sort of like a in game realm trades).

[AKLDragon]

It makes these items which can be as good as whites, and sometimes even better, easy to obtain for everyone.

where are my pixies selling for 2 spd?

At the current price, pixies are still a lot easier to obtain by buying than by getting them yourself. Also, the duping isnt shown by the proce, as lower prices make duping less profitable. It is shown by the supply. Pixies are always available to buy, and the same would happen with jugg. There wouldn’t be a shortage of juggs.

Look, ignoring every other argument, there’s one solid reason why STs shouldn’t be tradeable. DUPING.

??? how am I ignoring it? nobody I’ve responded to has used literally any arguments about duping other than the claim that duping today is much worse than a while back, which is absurd.

He’s not saying you’re ignoring duping, he’s saying that regardless of other problems, duping means that unsoulbinding things is a problem.

Duping doesn’t actually cause items to drop in price, the only example of this currently is the Deca, but that’s a very fringe case, as it was removed from all drop tables entirely. The price of them didn’t lower, overall it raised a little and sits at around 8 lifes. Other STs such as pixies still go for around 8 lifes, and the prices only go through large changes during chest events or events that lower the value of a life.

Theres a problem with this. Decas dont drop, so no more are coming into the game theoretically. People die with decas, which means that there shouldn’t be very decas left at all.

Your entire argument that theres barely any duping is that stuff costs more than 2 speed. Really? Why would dupers want to dupe so much that it only costs 2 speed? They dupe enough that the price remains relatively stable.

[JimdaFish]

I would prefer lowering the drop rates and unsbing them.

Okay. We have differing opinions, but I respect that.

meaning that people would still require luck to get them (it’s an RNG-based game, fer cryin’ out loud), but it wouldn’t take years and years of farming to obtain them.

it’s better than nothing but it’s still not ideal.

this idea needs to compete with the people that are flipping out about destroying rarity up there tho.

I personally think that this is (at least close to) the ideal situation: a player can only get the items through farming certain enemies (a central part of the game), but isn’t barred from getting them because the drop rates are a small fraction of a percent. As for other people flipping out, if they wish to address my ideas, they are free to do so.

I don’t want people to be handed out whitebags for free whenever they want, I want people to have the ability to work to gain the item they want without having to rely on their luck.

This idea would still require farming (as shown by the Halloween event), but players would have a good chance of getting the item if they were dedicated enough, given that the drop rates for the individual tokens would be reasonably high from the entities that dropped them.

My main concern (as I have voiced in other threads) is that unsoulbinding UTs would stop a lot of people from farming for the items themselves, and rather trying just to build up as much wealth as possible as fast as possible to get the necessary items. Do you run Tombs for the STs? No. If you do, you’re either a desperate PPE-er or crazy; it’s way easier to get the pots to trade for the items than to get the items themselves. I worry that unsoulbinding UTs means a shift from trying to get these items to farming the areas with the highest stat pot drops to get wealth as quick as possible to buy the items. This would make Realm an even bigger grind-fest (with relatively few dungeons being run in large number to improve wealth gain), and could possibly drive many players from the game. Why run Court of Oryx dungeons? They have cool white bags. If we un-sb-ed the UTs, though, there would be almost no reason to go to those dungeons, even during chest events.

Meanwhile, a lot of people find a lot of joy in farming for certain items. The White Bag Thread, the Which UT/ST do you Want the Most? Thread and the White Bag Checklist Thread are filled with people who want certain soulbound items, sometimes because they’re good, but often because they’re rare and hard to obtain. Players often want the Dirk of Cronus more than Etherite, because it’s rarer, even though Etherite is commonly seen as the superior dagger from a stat perspective.

UTs are a central aspect of the game. Is it fair that people like Marvin grind over a thousand voids without getting Omni while people like myself get it on their third try? No, it’s not. But I ultimately believe that the current situation, with a little tweaking, can be an effective means of allowing the game to continue and satisfying players.

[Leohe]

@AKLDragon @HorusKane @JimdaFish chill the fuck down. Arguments aren’t based off who can write the largest chunck of text. I know that coming from me, it might seem hypocritical, and I’m sorry, but chill… please

[JimdaFish]

Sorry. We just have a lot to say, and summarizing doesn’t give us enough time to thoroughly explain our points and give evidence.

[Leohe]

I entirely agree. but I feel like we’ve reached the point where all the facts are down and all that is left are opinions that contradict each other.

[RubeII]

Unsoulbound all the stupid pots already. I loved to fill realm chests (red dragun, ogre, or jungle chests) with a set of pots. But no, you’re not allowed to fun any longer. 8|

[HelBlox]

I remember hearing somewhere “An ST item shouldn’t be that great, but if the entire set is used in junction, the set should be basically the best set for that class (arguably, of course).”

I have yet to see one ST that follows this formula. The best ST sets (not including Old Oryx one) are the Necromancer set and the Trickster or Mystic Set. The issue with all these is, the individual items are amazing on their own, and more so altogether. Regardless, these are probably the best executed ones, the other sets are complete shit. Wizard set has a completely busted spell, yet the entire set is basically handicapping yourself. Every set needs an overhaul, fuck the whole SB or not SB, they just need to be balanced.

[Leohe]

Um. The wizard st set works as a whole. Have you ever used it? So does the warrior