What qualifies as the true PPE experience?


As we all know, PPE stands for ‘Poor Player Experience’, and essentially is emulating what the game was like in the beginning. Before there were 100+ slots in your vault to draw gear from, before you had enough character slots to just choose a new character when you died.

Though there lies a large problem that I see in this challenge. Many players will go into discord runs of high tier dungeons, streamers chats, and wait for the proper dungeon to be popped so that they can use their PPE character and claim that all of the gear they obtained was obtained through the single life of their character. No trading, no outside help.

I, in my opinion, view that this is not the legitimate use of the ppe challenge. Getting to level 20 and farming dungeons with a large group is not a proper challenge- and moreover, it is using the help of other players to obtain the gear that is supposed to be obtained through difficult methods.

This is why I have chosen my own path as a PPE user. I will only obtain my gear in realm. I will not hang around discords in order to farm the dungeons that I want UT items from. I will take whatever I can get from the realm that I have chosen to reside inside of. This, in my opinion, is the TRUE ppe experience.

I understand that this is outside the skillset and timeframe of a lot of users, but I think that this is what constitutes the true experience because you are playing the REALM of the mad god. You are not playing the NEXUS of the mad god. Or the CLOTH BAZAAR of the mad god. This is what your character’s path truly would be, if they were a character in this universe.



For the record, I am able to get gear from dungeons with t0 gear and a good pet, as long as there are a few players in the dungeon to help me out.

I am not saying that help from other players is the problem, just that keypops take away from the core of the game experience.

I lean more closely towards the NPE experience so that I am able to tell new players that the game is possible so long as you have the skill to spare. As unsuccessful as it may be so far for me, I think that this is the direction that veterans should be heading if they want to show new players that this game is more than doable.


Ah, this is the mindset I find very few have anymore. I approve wholeheartedly! It seems like a robbery of your character’s value by having it carried with maximum efficiency. Some might counterpoint that as being “tedious,” but is that not caused by the mad power and addictive compellings of having so many options for maximum efficiency and an abundance of wealth?

I actually tried to set something like this up a couple years ago, with a Discord dedicated to effectively “simulate” the old days in the ways you described. We’d first and foremost separate ourselves into dead Realms, and then go petless. It wasn’t true NPE, but we were limited to use the resources our group collected, with no outside help. It was fun while it lasted haha

But anyway, I would enjoy watching this journey closely, should you choose to keep us updated!




PPE for me and many others has always just been a “no trading” sort of gig where you start with zero and end up a hero. There is nothing more to it, and if there is, there aren’t any official ppe rules. Your ppe, your choice.

And discord runs aren’t muddying up the legitimacy of your ppe. You can go into them, and whether or not you come out a richer person or stay in the dungeon as a gravestone is completely up to you. The party isn’t really “carrying” you. You won’t get loot until you hit soulbound. And not to mention, before you can even join a raid, you have to meet reqs. The real efficient runs, you can’t even access them until you hit 8/8 with at least 2/4 gear… and by that point your PPE should already have hit its pinnacle and thus, discord raiding shouldnt even matter.

And to be honest, I see no difference in discord runs vs no discord runs. Let’s just say that discord runs didn’t exist. If there was an O3, people will walk into it. You will still be carried by people who know how to play the dungeon. There is literally no difference between discord raiding and “normal” dunegon crawling. Discord just makes these dungeons more accessible. If anything, discord runs are just… more loud and annoying because you have an RL blabbering shit in your ear the whole time.


I disagree. I think that the structure of a consistent dungeon to run over and over and over again until you get the drops that you want is not as legitimate as getting the items from inside the realm.

Maybe disconnect yourself from o3 for just one moment and think about the ability to do 40 cdepths in 2 hours because somebody was popping the dungeon for you. Or better yet, what about being able to do 40 htt in 2 hours because you didn’t have to go all the way through to janus in order to get to the dungeon.

Simply put, these things DO make the game much easier for somebody who is trying to call themselves PPE, but they are not accepting a REAL challenge.


But to be honest, I think you are completely wrong in your assessment that normal dungeon crawling is no different than discord raiding. Maybe you just only go into realms with 80+ players. And thats fine.

You can keep playing on easy-mode all you want. I am going to challenge myself and separate myself from people who flex gear that they were practically GIVEN by keypoppers.


Would you mind clarifying what you mean?

If I’m understanding, I didn’t mean to imply that setting up a Discord was making runs easier. We didn’t use VC, and we pretty much just did whatever we felt like, usually no more than Glands dungeons. I know it’s not the solo experience, but neither were the Realms of old. I know it’s not quite the same, but the heart of what I was saying is that it was cool to see someone else do something very similar. :slight_smile:


I had meant to reply to the other comment in this thread.

“And discord runs aren’t muddying up the legitimacy of your ppe. You can go into them, and whether or not you come out a richer person or stay in the dungeon as a gravestone is completely up to you. The party isn’t really “carrying” you. You won’t get loot until you hit soulbound. And not to mention, before you can even join a raid, you have to meet reqs. The real efficient runs, you can’t even access them until you hit 8/8 with at least 2/4 gear… and by that point your PPE should already have hit its pinnacle and thus, discord raiding shouldnt even matter.”

I disagree with this sentiment. I am not a fan of organized discord runs that place high emphasis on gear brought, status effects and optimization. I am just more of a player who appreciates the small scale experience of a low population realm.


I don’t know, I always just took PPE and NPE as no trading no vault, you start with zero like any other player would (with exception of pet in PPE). Any new player can do discord runs


PPE stands for ‘Poor Player Experience’

PPE stands for Pet Player Experience for most players. There’s no set definition to what it is, but PPE normally just means that the only items you can use are ones you obtained on that character. It does not mean you are forced to not do any Discord runs or key pops.

Some people will do PPEs without the use of Discords and those are called No Discord PPEs or something along those lines, but a PPE does not directly imply you cannot use Discords.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and PPE is in the mind of the player. Basically, it depends who you ask.

As @PiiNeS pointed out, not everyone even agrees on what the acronym stands for. I personally have seen many possible interpretations for the rules, including (but not limited to):

  • New character with no trading, but with your pet (most frequent interpretation)
  • New character with no trading, and no pet
  • New character with trading, and with pet
  • Starting a new account and building yourself up from scratch
  • Making a new character and only trading with a select few others (group PPEs)

These can further be complicated when dealing with the Tinkerer, Forge and other places where you can exchange items for other rewards; some people like them, and some don’t.

The issue of discord is also a very tricky one; some see it as a shortcut to endgame, while others (myself included) see it as the only feasible means of reliably completing endgame dungeons. Drop rates and exaltation completion requirements are balanced around discords, so trying to complete the dungeons in a meaningful quantity without them is rather time-consuming. On the other hand, I do enjoy godlands farming and am happy to just run those dungeons for a while and avoid the discord mess.

In short, everyone has their own rules, and the entire concept of PPE is hard for many players to agree on.


I do see it as a very large shortcut. I don’t feel as though the endgame should have been designed around discord runs. It feels very cheap, and subverts a need for skill into a need for other players. People will just get soulbound and leech, and then they flex the gear they got from it as if it is impressive.

It’s not impressive to me. To me, it just looks like a crutch, gear that would be better placed in the hands of somebody who would do more work to get it. I understand that this boils down more to an opinionated topic- but to ME, PPE means no keychains, no organized discord runs, no nexus keys, and no trading.

Though on the prospect of trading I do see an odd exception. As with group ppe’s, where you trade with each other, I wonder what the ability to trade should be. Trading is part of the BASE game, so maybe you should be able to trade pots you get from dungeons for gear. Though that does eliminate much of the challenge entirely. However, say you have gotten maxed defense from cdepths but no doku, should you really have to farm the dungeon still??


I 100% agree with this, most people who use discords on their ppe to obtain the endgame loot fast probably would not be able to finish that dungeon without being carried by people with 4/4 sets on, hitting soulbound is such a low requirement it shouldn’t even be considered a factor in this. I just think people will try to justify saying discords dont muddy the experience so they can continue to say they have a ppe, even though that doesnt really mean much anymore.


the only thing that matters with a ppe is challenging yourself, aside from the ‘absolute’ rule of only using items your character has acquired, it’s really up to the player. that’s the fun part.

i tend to switch it up often with what i personally do, since i almost always do some variation of a ppe when i play

my own rules generally are that i allow myself to use forge with items the ppe character acquires, and i only join organised runs after maxing my character through normal realm gameplay, because thats just the way i like it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if you prefer the extra challenge of not doing organised runs at all, then thats perfectly fine, and respectable. But i dont think its fair to say other player ppes arent ‘legitimate’ because you dont agree with their own rules, especially given the definition of the challenge is set by the community, with minor adjustments by the individual.

speaking personally though, the kind of ppe i do really depends on how i feel, i used to do a lot of Knight ‘no pet experiences’ for example, but that isnt always fun. im not always up for a hardcore challenge lol, sometimes i just wanna grind on my favourite class


im my opinion using discords to do runs is just using a social media platform while playing a game, because thats what you are doing, this is a fact. I have 2 monitors so i pretty much always talking with someone or watch a video or stream while playing. Discord runs are no different, im just joining a vc or chatting with text with some other people who want to do the same things as me at that time. Anyone who has access to social media platforms can use discord while playing the game and there is no problem with it.


PPE, as it was originally made, was a pet-player experience. Under that definition, almost anything can be covered under a PPE. However, the more or less only solidified rule for your PPE is that you cannot take items from your vault and you can’t trade for items. Currently, anything else is free game.

Although your idea of PPE fits closely to what most original PPEs were, it doesn’t reflect modern day PPEs mostly because the game has changed a lot. When I first started making PPEs, the game was very different from the way it is today. Events were rare and a massive deal when they happened. Things like the forge didn’t exist at all and the tinkerer was very different. Endgame dungeons were things like OT, tombs, and old shatters and although difficult, it was possible to solo these dungeons. And finally, perhaps most importantly, people actually played the game. You could hop into a realm and screw around with whoever else was on and it was a good time. Discords obviously existed but without pressure to only play weekly events or exalt, discords were a lot more casual (in my experience). Now, I can’t realm clear without a realm event and not feel sad and alone. Even if running the same dungeons by myself over and over again was fun, spending five minutes to run to the god lands so I can run a sprite is not a fulfilling experience. Additionally, using the old method, it’s basically impossible to exalt or obtain any endgame gear. Grinding the runes out so I can solo an O3 which I may or may not die in or just get nothing from is not worth my time. Neither is soloing a cult followed by a void so I can leave with 3 life and mana and 1 or 2 def and atk. Playing the game without discords just isn’t viable anymore if you actually want to “win”.


idk what y’all talking about

the only PPE experience is the vault & trade PPE :slight_smile:


Bruh the amount of projection here. At least the “noob” gear they got was from their own personal challenge.

Also, do you really think this type of PPE is gonna earn high DPS sets in just a couple months? At least be realistic.

Because it’s a challenge. What part of that don’t you get?

Never once did the OP say that their custom PPE was the true PPE experience. Every time they mentioned it, they never said it was the definitive way of doing a PPE. They were simply asking if that should be how a real challenging PPE was, and it was how THEY saw the challenge.


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