ninja’s multitarget dps is already really strong, if this goes through ninja might actually become OP. I can already shred void minions like they’re nothing as-is, I don’t think the katana buff is necessary.
The shot speed increase I don’t think I like in principle, it seems all the classes are getting this and it narrows the distinction between them. I wonder if a sword nerf might have been more interesting if it were done by merely decreasing the shot speed, I mean they are supposed to be heavy weaponry, it always seems derpy in fiction when you have a heavy sword hitting multiple times per second.
I’d say that an issue with that is that it makes mana-focused Knights fairly redundant. Yeah, you can land multitple Shields consecutively, so what, you’ll still die after the Stun wears off after the set couple seconds.
Then again, making it so that an enemy only becomes Stun immune after multiple Stuns wouldn’t work either, since a second Knight could just Stun right after you have, and then it’ll just be immune faster than expected.
imo, utilizing public testing for experimenting with Knight changes should be the right direction to go. Gives us all a chance to take a better look at balancing Knight.
Well, in my opinion the swords nerf sucks. He only talked about Tierd swords so my question is what about UT swords? If they nerf those it will really suck.
As for nerfing the melee classes I am against it. Knight has already had a great nerf because new bosses and some of the old bosses are stun immune now. All the knight has is great defense. Warrior and Pally out class him.
If nerfs happen to warrior and pally it makes them less likely to be played. What really makes them different to the other classes if they cant out damage or out heal or even do worthy buffs for everyone. We may as well all play a wizard but that nerf would happen soon after the melee nerf because you cant have a robe class out DPSing a melee class.
I will still play melee if nerfed …
At base stats Wizard already out DPSes Knight and paladin when using new-top weapons, including the spell bomb it would do a lot more damage.
everyone save up dblades and pixies
Just a Stupid Decision
Melees are not getting a 30 hp damage nerf; they are getting almost 60, when compared to daggers and katanas… I won’t even talk about the damage effect, when you use a warrior with max atk.
Maybe you can illuminate me and say swords were already nerfed in past and this is a problem since 2011… this is so unnecessary.
What do you mean? Nerfing the sword will not affect the utility of the helmet, shield or seal. Even with the sword nerf, a buffed Warrior will still do crazy damage.
So what you’re saying is that everyone would play a wizard, but then it would get nerfed because “you cant have a robe class out DPSing a melee class”? That makes absolutely no sense mate, the Wizard is a pure DPS machine, without any support value. Of course he should have high DPS. I would argue that he should have the highest DPS, seeing as how he offers literally no support value.
Knight offers the comfort of stuns, the paladin boosts DPS and heals, and the warrior gives a DPS boost. What can the wizard do for a group?
Also, you seem to think the wizard is OP-he’s not- his era of uncontested supremacy is over. Even when choosing a long ranged class, people now seem to value the more support oriented classes as opposed to a raw DPS machine with no support value.
Also, making everything stun immune is tantamount to making the knight pointless at the end of the game- Paladin has a more useful buff and is arguably more survivable than the knight. This “make everything stun immune” business is kinda trash.
Why not make it so that after getting stunned for 3sec, the boss is stun immune for 1 sec or something like that?
These comments are pretty amazing. I don’t understand why people think melee is actually good.
Melee should DEFINITELY not be nerfed. Actually, I think they should be buffed.
Warriors, paladins, and knights are the worst 3 classes in the game.
You can talk all day about their damage output and their armor but that honestly doesn’t mean anything.
Just do one Wine Cellar and it’s very clear that melee is bad.
Most melee sit far away from oryx (at a range of 8 or 9 tiles).
Lots of knights don’t go into stun, and I’ve seen plenty of knights get roasted trying to stun.
The sun phase is borderline impossible for a melee character.
There are just so many bosses/dungeons that are unfriendly for melee characters. LODs bosses, Dirty Tombs, Nests, Avatar and Shatters (ice spheres especially), Statues and Corrupted Casters from Mountain Temple, Lost Halls (especially Crusaders), and El Dorado’s minions in Thicket.
There are also a few bosses that are easy but can cause instadeath if you are too close. I have seen plenty of 8/8 melees die to Septavius and Megamoth.
Confusion is particularly deadly to melee characters (prime example is Avatar) where one second of confusion can spin you right into an instadeath scenario.
A bunch of people will respond to this post by saying ‘git gud’. However, if you have to ‘git gud’ to do O2 successfully on a melee while a wizard sits back and relaxes with spell bombs, it’s quite obvious which class is better.
Bottom line - Better classes survive longer in a permadeath survival game. Melees have very little room for error on many high tier bosses and thus have a much high risk of dying.
That might have been the case before, but pets mean that people can eat a ghost god shotgun and walk off to regen it in a matter of seconds. Without pets, melees wouldnt need a nerf, but we’re stuck with pets so here we goddamn are.
Pets don’t do anything against an O2 bullet split. All the bosses I listed can instakill melees no problem.
I think you’re overestimating pets. If I’m in a lost halls and I know that a crusade is coming, I’d much rather be sitting 7 tiles away with 38 defense than 3 tiles away with 60 defense.
Not only does extra range allow you more time to dodge, but it also lets the people with low range soak up the shots for you.
From personal experience I firmly believe a ranged character will survive much longer than a melee will.
The only reason why those Insta kill shotguns is because anything else is just shrugged off by a divine pet knight.
It’s also a bad idea to balance the game around pets. It takes a long time to get a good pet and in my last post I commented that deca has been removing a bunch of pet feed drops from their weekly chest events.
You can do LoD bosses on melees.
You can do dirty Tombs on melees.
You can do Nests on melees.
You can do Avatars and Shatters on melees.
You can DEFINITELY do Mountain Temples on melees.
You can do Lost Halls on melees.
You can do Thickets on melees.
No shit, that’s what I’m saying. But that’s what we have to do, because with pets melees are so goddamn broken most endgame dungeons are non-melee biased. That’s just how it is.
We legit just had a long ocean trench (Aka feed power dungeon) event and the bellas and succubus drop pizzas a whole damn lot.
then where are all the wizard reacts? where’s all the 91 wis devastation scepter sorcs? where’s all the doombow archers?
LoD is a leech fest anyway so it’s a moot point.
Dirty tombs are easy as a knight if you have any balls.
Nest is easy on my non jugg warrior, I don’t know what you’re on.
Ava is easy on anything if you can use wasd
Shatters isn’t hard
MT paralyzing archers are hard on any class
LH is made for melees in a large group, pub halls regularly needs 20 of each
El Dorado minions aren’t too bad, thicket is generally pretty OK on a melee
Yes I could have merged this with my above post but I’m lazy.
This means that pallys are gonna do even lower damage. Their dps already sucks ass
Buffed pally has >2.5k dps
melees are incredibly broken in the current state of the game
i dont think a dps nerf is really going to change much but it at least shows that deca is going in somewhat the right direction.
also about the issue of stuns making all bosses joke without stun immunity, I think stun should just be lowered from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. that means chainstunning can still exist, and no temporary immunity to make mana on knights useless, but you also cant perma stun since you need to stun twice as often and cant rely on your p2w 100 100 pet