Does rogue need a buff?

#1

Rogue doesn’t seem to be all that useful anymore. The ability is practically useless in a lot of dungeons and can actually get you killed if another player draws aggro towards you. it’s main strength used to be rushing, but nowadays other classes can do that just as well (if not better) without sacrificing damage potential.

#2

Funny to see a “buff rogue” topic appear moments after I read this below topic with a great use for rogue:

It’s a situational class, sure sometimes it will be useless, but when it’s good, it’s very very good. So I’d want to be convinced more that it wants a buff. Were you thinking particularly about any part of rogue to adjust?

#3

I have been playing rogue lately, and i love it. It’s easy to rush dungeons and it’s safer than trickster.

Yes it is very useless in dungeons like Lost Halls, but it shines in others (eg : OT, Shatters etc). It’s also very useful for new players, they can learn boss phases without being punished ! So no, rogue don’t need a buff. Not yet.

#4

Tiered Daggers need a buff in general. They’re just…so weak.

Rogue is in a rather uncomfortable spot considering his complete lack of direct group support, being pretty much on par with Ninja and Wizard (as both of those only contribute “more damage”, although Ninja has the option of Paralyze) - or, dare I say, even lower, as being in a group makes invisibility pretty much useless.

On the other hand, you can easily cheese various bosses and rush dungeons. In fact, Rogue is probably one of the most problematic classes to balance a hard boss fight around, because if your phase relies solely on targeted shots, it’ll just become a cakewalk for Rogues and Tricksters.

On our third hand, located in the middle of our stomach as with all humans, we also have the impending IC/OoC changes, which might help in making Rogue a bit more desirable, as the decreased power of The Group gives Rogues a relative edge.

#5

Yes please. I saw that wands have an impending buff coming with IC/OoC, and I am really hoping daggers follow suit!

#6

I say no. I find that the lower DPS is a simple tradeoff for the extra time you can get in damage while cloaked and not being shot at, or at least not directly. No need to clear, draw minions away, or use an ability to stasis/stun/decoy them, just rush straight in and do your damage in 3-4 second bursts.

#8

I always thought the nerf that happened to rogue, when they added the uncloak on quiet, was a bit too much. Given the current state of the game, I’d just recommend removing that nerf and seeing if that gets rogue more gameplay. I’d start playing it again lol (I honestly haven’t really played rogue since that nerf, because I really hated that nerf. It just feels too random to get uncloaked when quiet, and just unnecessary)

#9

Isn’t it all invisibility? Also, when was this nerf?

Also regarding the main topic, my friend Epicymaboo actually talked about why he’s still a diehard rogue main, I made that into another video (shameless plug).

#10

Oh man, that nerf was maybe 2013 to 2015 sometime, I have no idea. At the time it was specifically a nerf to rogue (and was meant specifically to be a nerf, because many players were claiming rogue was OP, and at the time it was one of the most heavily used classes), because there weren’t other methods of invis.

Edit: it was during a time were pretty much the most valuable loot you could get was from solo’ing tombs (with an alt for tp to main room), and realm event rushing. Both of which rogue was the best and fastest at.

#11

Yeah, I think rogue needs a buff. The class shouldn’t be useless in groups. I think being able to “dodge” bullets when you first cloak would help it out. Like Oreo gives you a invul for a couple seconds, except this effect would make it so bullets pass through you and you don’t get any status effects. So you can dodge either a small number of shots when cloaked or dodge shots for a second.

#12

Oh rogue is great and actually super beneficial to cooperative gameplay despite seeming like a solo class at first. However daggers are absolute trash, my solution however would be just make all of them have a base attack speed of 110% or something like that, making them stand out as weapons, because right now, they feel like they don’t fill any niche as a weapon.
Swords are close melee good for single target
Katanas are close melee good for crowd control
Bows are multishot mid-range, being the ultimate crowd control.
Staves are long range and have amplitude
Wands are super long range with piercing to make sure you can always keep your distance from the big baddy but still get damage in

But daggers don’t really do anything that another weapon doesn’t do better. Even with 110% fire rate they wouldn’t be that special, but they would at least feel more special

#13

It’s not though. It’s an excellent rushing class, which is useful in many dungeons. Other classes can rush but Rogue has a particular advantage I find. And that’s before you start using Plane to take shortcuts in dungeons like WLab, Tomb and Puppet, jump over sick in Sewers.

The other use it has is finishing off some enemies. Tomb bosses and Oryx 2 if there’s no-one else with enough range or an ability that lets them do damage.

#14

This could be done by another route, by decoupling the uncloak from quiet, and designing a new enemy ability (something like “reveal”), which would deliberately decloak players. Then designers could choose if they want to have a projectile do both quiet AND reveal, to be a hard punishment on invisible players (including grummers for example), or just quiet alone with no reveal, to be a softer option against players doing stealth.

Also better use of silence, which (I think) doesn’t cancel invisibility (or if it does currently, it shouldn’t. Apols for not knowing: I don’t play much rogue!).

Edit:

I believe it may have been when the Arena quiet enemies were introduced (because everyone was going rogue in there for easy mode), which would make it Hotfix 14.1.0 (Jun 2013): https://www.realmeye.com/wiki/release-history-2013#hotfix-14-1-0

#16

Wasn’t it to buff castle?

#17

I don’t think so, believe the castle got its (only?) WS-era buff in Feb 2012 in b122 (for original castle see this Kalle vid), this was the buff that got BMJ his T14 dagger. I think the next castle changes, Janus addition aside, wasn’t until Decatimes when weak got added and stronger walls in 2017.

And you can see in the below vid from Apr 2013 quiet still did not decloak rogue at that time (upload date no guarantee, but the hp/mp slots puts it after r4.0 in Nov 2012):

Also found this on the wiki from the past edits to the status effects page:
https://www.realmeye.com/wiki/status-effects/1

-it had this text when the page was transferred from the old wiki in Nov 2013.

#18

I think your memory is spot on, it wasn’t about rogue being op in general like I had implied. You’re dead-on that it was the arena nerf because rogue did totally dominate arena. Lol I forgot I actually spent some time grinding arenas with rogue, but I think there was that memory leak issue that made you lag out at a certain point anyhow? I can’t really recall exactly…

#19

Because cutting all the classes down makes a class somehow better?

It doesn’t have the raw damage to justify its use even without ability use.

The O3 ut classes will likely see more use if the items are obtainable and good.

#20

If the change affects how often the class can be used, it will make a class better in comparison to the other classes, while still being weaker than its pre-changed state. Just because rogue won’t be directly buffed doesn’t mean that it won’t be used more.

Also, as long as invisibility doesn’t affect ooc, rogue will have a new ability to walk away from the group to perserve his ooc state.

Yes, but rogue has an ability. Not all abilities are created equal(well, in certain situations of course!).

That’s not to say that I think rogue is a good class or will be a good class.

#21

Honestly, I have yet to see a better class at rushing godland dungeons than rogue(apart from trix in sprites). Rogue is in my opinion, the best class for rushing udls, libs, sews, and pups. But yeah I can see why you would think it needs a buff, it’s just not as useful in big groups or in endgame dungeons. But, if you’re farming for rainbows, or just learning to rush, rogue is definitely the best choice. (In my opinion) Hmm maybe its also cause my pet can’t mheal me enough to perma teleport on a trickster.

#22

I’m more of a buff tiered bows but yeah dagger too