Heroic Abyss discussion


You could see this as a more dedicated thread to the Heroic Abyss, rather than the patch notes or the more generalised discussion on the concept of Heroic dungeons.

Personally, I like the concept to some degree, but the execution for the Heroic Abyss has left a sour taste akin to the first release of the Heroic Undead Lair.

The good parts: A dungeon that enforces people to no longer rely on their pets is great. It’s a refreshing take, and means that Pet Stasis spam isn’t required anymore for an endgame dungeon.
The Malphas sprite is pretty cool, and the loot is quite fitting as well. (Pots become greater pots, the corresponding UT drops at a higher rate, high-tier weapons)

The bad parts: Hoo boy, everyone’s favourite thing about new dungeons - complaints. Unfortunately, the Heroic Abyss has quite a number of issues that severely disturb my experience.
First off, the Malphas protectors (image ). The most notable change to them was their shot’s damage - buffed up from a standard 50, to an Armor Piercing 100, as well as being able to pierce through players.
Their constant barrage, while retaining high speed (as well as constantly beeing spawned by Malphas) cripples long-range classes, who are forced to get dangerously close to Malphas. Standing at mid-range isn’t much better, as they cover quite a ring around Malphas - and getting hit by 300 damage is a notable chunk of your health away, in an environment where regenerating takes a long while.

Onto Malphas himself, most of the phases are simply buffed up. The first phase with Malphas Missiles is alright, but harder than it needs to bee due to aforementioned Protectors. Additionally, Malphas is invulnerable for a surprisingly long amount of time when at lower %HP, which drags out the fight.

The second phase, shrinking and growing, is somwhat untouched. At lower HP, the grown phase lasts for a much shorter period of time, and doesn’t have a lot of vulnerability time either (at really low HP, it lasts for barely a second!).

His Flamer (image ) summoning phase is also hindered by the Protectors, and yet again by the lower-HP-shorter-phases, as they don’t despawn any faster - meaning that they can easily spawn together with the Missiles, giving you more to worry about. In addition, their spammy attacks deal a sizable Armor Piercing 65 damage, which can stack up quickly.

Onto the new phases. I don’t think the phase with the Flame Breath attacks is too bad. They have a weird wavy pattern, but they’re slow, and you can make out their pattern if you stand back to observe.
However, the new tentacle phase is where there’s real problems.
First of all, it forces you to keep circling Malphas, while turning at a speed that’s faster than a 50 speed character on hardened lava - the safest ground of the arena, the square around Malphas, consists of it, mind you - while also having another stream coming from outside the arena that persists after Malphas transitions into another phase.
But that’s not all: there’s also a large White Bullet that deals heavy damage beeing shot at the closest player. Although slow, it does mean having to go around it, which easily results in beeing caught by the tentacle that easily shreds through pretty much any class.
Now add in the fact that Flamers can also be active during the phase if you’re unlucky.

Oh, and Malphas also gives only 1 fame, which is miniscule compared to Septavius’ 20. So. Yeah.

In short, the Heroic Abyss is alright, but needs serious tweaking to become less punishing than it currently is.

MotMG 2019 Discussion Megathread


I think it’s a little too hardcore, it’s unfair at times (with the little minions)
I wonder if this dungeon allowed pets; would it be balanced? Then I might put its difficulty around Thicket.


This is a bug I believe. They are gonna buff Habby and nerf Hudl to a neat 10 fame.


Problem with high fame in a large room like this is same as O2, you risk missing out if you’re unlucky enough to be standing on the opposite side. Why not include a ‘dying phase’ like Reef or Machine has because it is hella annoying to spend effort in a fight and miss a large XP, worse if a small group since your effort is larger and chance to miss it higher.

Having it both no-pet and extra difficult is like doing a double difficulty whammy on it.
Reduce the difficulty a little, or abandon the no-pet, else people will only seek out the massive groups to ever bother with running them. The variation between what a solo/small group faces (very hard) and a big group (it almost instadies) is gigantic. Obviously the HP scale doesn’t work, prompted me to made a topic about how using a reverse HP scaling would help out with this.

There also seems to be a bug in the dungeon, have now experienced 3x disconnections during the ‘rebound orange shots’ phase, have heard people speculate it’s caused by being hit by an invisible bullet?

Is the spawn room supposed to be a safespace? As the orange rebounders also fire from there making it not so.

Minions seem to have too much HP, are they HP scaled? As that’s just shit & anti-coop when your group isn’t fully maxed, or if you’re the one person on the far side trying to solo a h-white demon while others do the boss. If minions are not HP scaled they simply have too much HP. A solo maxed priest shouldn’t have to spend so long on a single minion.

It has no dungeon completion stat counter but that’s been the case for virtually every Deca dungeon on release so am entirely unsurprised at that.

Overall it is a very muddled-up poor effort and feels more like a first attempt than a polished release dungeon, even though it’s been through testing when the idea would’ve been the full dungeon. (I didn’t test so don’t know if the boss fight is the same). Obv HP scale would work better if it was the boss of a full dungeon since the time to get there ensures the HP is correct. Also the XP seems appropriate for a 5 second pile-in fight, but measly if you run it ‘properly’.

Also, what’s with the player cap is it 15 or something silly-low? If you don’t get straight in, it’s already full. It should be like Reef where an 85-group can join it, have a minute’s fight, but no. (I’m only referring to Reef since someone opened that amidst the heroics and it was so much more enjoyable).

I rate 2/10 since it’s a fast source of alien thingys, that’s the only thing to its credit at the moment for me. And there’s nothing ‘heroic’-feeling about running these atm.


It just need a actual HP scaling and that’s fine with me. I don’t find it too punishing but then again I am a 8/8 necro


I’d give my 2 cents but I’ve become paranoid after seeing many videos of people dying instantly so I never entered it before :cold_sweat:


Insert joke here.

Anyways, I totally agree with everything you’ve said–and I think the best way to nerf would involve the damage of each shot. I mean, ffs the flying fast AF minions do 100x3 armor piercing, which is anywhere from a quarter of your health (bplate and health set melees) to half your health (most non-maxed life characters) which is INSANE.

And the flamers too that spam death at you

Overall, the dungeon seems really buggy


For me I’ve had it happen one time when I walked back into the spawn room during that phase (hey there weren’t many people that time and I needed to take a breather because my character was getting roughed up, lol), and one time on that phase just out of nowhere.

I think it’s just something about how the shots going in towards Malphas work that the game sometimes doesn’t like; my guildmate experienced multiple disconnects on Limoz during public testing, on the tentacle phase near the end (which also has a similar “reverse tentacles” pattern going on).

It might not have been changed from when Heroic UDL was originally added. These patch notes (https://old.reddit.com/r/RotMG/comments/belspy/patch_x3160_heroic_easter/) say the player limit was 15 in Heroic UDL, and I’d wager a guess it’s the same with Heroic Abyss as well.


Nice find I’ll start answering people with that when I hear them speculate about what the cap is.

Another little thought, if there are plans to increase XP on Malph it’d be nice to also put some appropriate XP on the white demons to be a slight reward to people who focus on them.


Don’t you think having a low player cap is better right now? You can see how people steamroll a habby with an 85+ group. That shouldn’t happen. It’s a heroic dungeon dammit.


Agree, it’s much more the fault of how the cap doesn’t actually block a larger group from getting in if everyone is quick enough to join so can be exploited for steamroll purposes. If it genuinely capped playerjoining at 15 I think it’d be a much different experience!


Most of the times it is capped at 15 people, but only the discords and USS key pops create problems. So there should be no problem in a natural heroic abyss or something else.


Slight bump, but after a year hiatus I came back. Second day playing again I went into the dungeon without any prior experience (viewing or playing), and had to end up soloing it at about 1/8th health when everyone left (on a 8/8 knight, generic top set). Did another one with 3 people, both left at around 1/3rd but I had been staying within 5 tiles or so the entire time.

At this point, I had assumed that maybe an 8/8 melee is too strong due to overall dps (which compensates for hp scaling) and regen (which compensates for the no pet). Eventually tried it with a 7/8 huntress, slightly harder but only because the fight dragged on longer. Tried a 4/8, barely did 3 phases before I had to leave.

Now at this point I assume there are quite a few players who are more familiar with the patterns and are able to dodge better, but honestly the only issue I see that makes this dungeon quite annoying is the random jumps when malphas shrinks, which offset him from the centerish area and force you to make large arcs when you circle during tentacles. I think given enough base speed and maybe >650 hp (to prevent getting oneshot), the dungeon itself is super easily soloable.


Post-fix, I seemed to do fine in there when left solo on assassin (80SPD, 900HP), definitely fast enough to remain in the ‘tentacle window’ and solo completed a couple via circling that others abandoned midway through, although didn’t continue to do so after establishing it was do-able, since the rate of opens meant it was more efficient to leave and join a new one.

Ironically it feels like it’d be fun with pets allowed, but it’s a chore as it stands now. If it remains as is, I forsee it being another unloved/ignored part of the game, only run when events require it, since the difficulty/effort required is not worthwhile for what rewards it gives, and almost pointless to have it drop from standard Malphas, after O2 would be a better site, or via Craig, so you can get a group who is more ready for it.


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