Lack of Immunity Frames

[Twitchystr]

So it was overall a more forgiving game in terms of instapops, but lots of flying brain style chip attacks? Oh, and pets changed the core mechanic by letting people tank chipattacks, and only be killed with instapops

[Xaklor]

The very first shot that hits you gives you post-invulnerability for enough time to make it so that the other shots that are stacked won’t affect you at all. I don’t know how the technicalities of it work (if there were two shots hitting you on the exact same frame, etc…)

let me try walking you through this in a different way that will hopefully make the issue of stacked shots more clear to you and why introducing an iframe grace period won’t help with simultaneous shots:

time passes on a tick-based system, every time we hit a tick we re-evaluate what’s happening in the “present” and make adjustments accordingly. so in the scenario of getting hit normally, the projectile moves across the screen and asks if its touching something every time we pass a new tick. on the tick when it finally does make contact with your character, the game calculates how much your HP should go down based on your DEF and the projectile’s damage, and makes changes to your HP to match. the key point here is that this change does not happen on the same tick that the projectile hits you. that tick that you got hit on has already happened, we can’t go back in time to previous ticks so any changes we make happen on the next tick.

now consider 30 shots all making contact with your character on the same tick, with an iframe system that should make you invulnerable briefly after getting hit. in that tick, all 30 shots will pass the “am I hitting something” test, so the game applies the corresponding damage for all 30 shots. now whichever one happens to get chosen to be added first will trigger the iframe system, but because this tick has already happened we won’t get those iframes until we get to the next tick. meanwhile in this snapshot in time the player racks up major damage from all those shots at once because they haven’t turned on their iframes yet. when we finally get to the next tick after all those shots have hit, your iframes have activated and you’re temporarily invulnerable, but you’re also dead because your HP is now -400. iframes won’t save you from stacked shots.

in fact, you don’t even have to take my word for this. this has actually happened already using the alien armor effect. going invulnerable doesn’t take effect until we reach the next tick because we can’t change things that have already happened, and going invulnerable won’t stop you from dying if you’re already dead.

[Thropy]

I don’t know, I think that if they give iframes AS WELL AS check if another shot is already hitting you and negating them all so it’s only 1, that it will work. Games like Two Worlds Two and Terraria also work on a tick-based system, but iframes still work properly, unlike that example you provided. You had some really solid points though. That’s honestly just a programmer issue, if anything.

[Thropy]

I clarified a lot of things in the original post, I hope people aren’t confused anymore.

[Orsome]

Kinda late, but I moved this to #ideas since it seems this is now more of a discussion on the implementation of invincibility frames rather than a problem with lag causing the issue shown in the original post.

[Thropy]

thank you, i kinda still think it’s a glitch xD

[Triforcej]

Or possibly it’s a screenshot from someone else’s video recording (if so I’d like to see the vid of that hell!).

During a nest event at some point or another a halls eo gifed this and posted it in event status anouncements.
So yes, it is from a different recording

[Rabcord]

@DivineOryx @Orsome @RMGnoob @Unicorn @Hemming @Twitchystr @BeeMoth @Kalitaio @Mynamerr hey @Thropy updated the op incase you didn’t know

Update: A lot of people are persistently convinced that immunity frames are a bad idea because of a number of reasons, mostly for the lack of knowledge and the fact that it says “immunity” in it. I’ll go over a few things so we don’t hear repeats.

What are immunity frames?: Iframes are a conditional system in which collisions between the player and the object hurting the player, gives the player a short length of time (usually a couple of frames, hence the name) where they’re immune to other damage collisions. Simply put, it’s post-hit invulnerability.

Immunity frames in RotMG: In the case of RotMG, iframes will essentially get rid of the word “popped” from colloquial use in the RotMG community. Enemies that shoot a million projectiles or stacked projectiles will yield damage equivalent to that of one projectile. Keep in mind that running into a god wall in the mountains will still very instantly kill you, it’s just that it wouldn’t happen in one frame.

RotMG was designed without immunity frames in mind: Exactly, the developers never had the idea in their mind in the first place. Keep in mind, RotMG was a game jam creation, meaning it was made for a contest without bigger intentions behind it. Wild Shadow Studios never implemented the mechanic because the thought never occurred to them.

Pets will make iframes overpowered: The fact that you need pets in the first place to do dungeons easily is a problem with the funding portion of the game. I think if pets were more accessible to new players, there would be a good reason to keep dungeons hard. Iframes will just make it so that you don’t instantly die to nonsense. What good are pets if you’re standing on top of the Avatar of the Forgotten King?

People would just take shots for other players: It’s incredibly easy to set a condition where the projectile pierces through the player if they are invulnerable from iframes.

People will exploit this mechanic and be gods: Then fix it. Most video games have iframes and most video games don’t have an invincibility glitch. If it’s a mod or a hack then ban the player.

[Kalitaio]

updated the op incase you didn’t know

Update: A lot of people are persistently convinced that immunity frames are a bad idea because of a number of reasons, mostly for the lack of knowledge and the fact that it says “immunity” in it. I’ll go over a few things so we don’t hear repeats.

1. There was no need to mass ping, the forum uses the tracking options for a reason. People will get updates about the post if they so choose to.
2. I have heavily proven the logical contradictions that OP presented, and this “update” is just further agitation of the same merde.

[Twitchystr]

._. Just fucking nexus if you’re in a situation like that. Or jut turn off your wifi for an instant dc

[majt]

thanks

[RMGnoob]

updated the op incase you didn’t know

What’s the point of pinging everyone when this changes nothing to what was previously said?

[Rabcord]

um. well sorry everyone. that was a big mistake i made. this should be buried.

[Thropy]

You have no sense of how a good video game is designed if you actually think a standard in MMO RPGs isn’t needed a rogue, perma-death game where the gimmick is hordes of enemies shooting unavoidable projectiles.

[Orsome]

hey, uh

if you’re planning to actually argue a point here then don’t take 25 day breaks between each post

[Kalitaio]

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.

Also… I think I lost Regular… Damn, three years to earn it, lost it in a matter of weeks during finals.

[Gidey]

I would argue this is where our game philosophies differ. You can’t simply argue “well, most games have this mechanic therefore it must be needed.” You also cannot insult people’s sense of a good video game based on this. Personally, i prefer games that are original, and to be original, one has to choose not to follow commonly used mechanics. Anyway, back to the topic of Iframes:
I agree with you completely that popping isnt really a good mechanic for a permadeath game, and from my time of the forums ive seen a few people also agree on this matter, however, I don’t actually know if Iframes would fix this issue, and if it did, maybe it would fix it to well?
Lets assume we manage to code a perfect Iframe system for rotmg, essentially, the end result is if you get hit by multiple bolts on the same frame (or maybe one or two frames after it as well) you only take one bolt damage, and all other bolts pass through you or something. (essentially, i dont want to argue minor points such as ways players could abuse the system, as im sure you can just code around it).
As I see it, although it would remove popping, it would also remove getting shotgunned from the game, which is a mechanic i like to see (for example, if you sat on a medusa, or ent or ghost god, or even a parylised limon, the Iframe activates and you get hit with pitiful damage compared to what you should recieve). I think i’d rather just see some enemies getting reworked (like ice sphere- which could be re-worked into something that uses the AoE damage system rather than a nigh unavoidable instakill) rather than having Iframes which remove the shotgun mechanic

TL;DR: although I wouldn’t complain if it did make its way into the game, I feel there might be better ways of dealing with “unfair popping”.

[Thropy]

opping isnt really a g

yea i see the appeal of the original premise, but this game is rotmg is such a meme at this point it my friends just would say something along the lines of “…at least it’s not as bad as rotmg”. IDK to each their own IG. Rotmg is such a unique game and I like it but it makes it hard for me to like it.

[TROLLDLLR]

Maybe you could get around this by having most attacks generate iFrames but then you could have special attacks that don’t

[PiiNeS]

I was just wondering, what if the player sits on the enemy. Would they only take one shot?