Nah, they’re really just QoL that should have been there from the start.
PT: Oryx 3, Bard, and Livestream
ThymeWarp
#139
I think the bosses could use some kind of indicator when they successfully launch a counter, so you know why you’re suddenly Sick/Quiet/etc. in Oryx’s fight, as an example. Maybe they announce it in the chat?
ZoeyEX
#141
Current thoughts:
Oryx 3 feels very much like a raid boss more than a realm event. In my opinion, o3 probably should have his difficulty increased by increasing the length of the fight while making most phases a decent amount easier, alongside making the stagger-counter mechanic easier to read, and nerfing the Celestial/Desperation phase.
Furthermore, his advisors should have more hp scaling in larger groups, as right now they take too little time for what seems to be designed to be an endgame boss, even more so if o3 is balanced around being an endurance-based fight that is completable in unorganized groups in the future.
How I’d rebalance o3:
- First off, roughly double o3’s base HP. This will tie into the concept of o3 being an endurance-based boss fight which can be completed in unorganized groups, which is what o3 should ultimately be.
- All pre-exalted phases should be made far easier to dodge, but deal slightly more damage per shot to compensate.
- The Celestial/Desperation phase should be fully reworked, and still be the hardest standard phase in the fight, but not be a massive jump in difficulty as it is right now
- An easier version of the current Celestial/Desperation phase should be moved to a 30 second mid-fight “rage” that procs once when o3 becomes exalted. Once this phase is over, o3 should become staggered, as is currently the case.
- More of o3’s exalted phases should make use of invulnerability and the counter-stagger mechanic in order to lengthen the fight, while still leaving windows for decent amounts of damage in a group which is paying attention
TL;DR - Oryx 3’s patterns are probably too hard right now, if the concept of o3 being possible in unorganized groups is DECA’s intent. My idea for fixing this is to make o3 longer while making most of his individual phases easier, alongside emphasising stagger-counter far more than currently.
Seelpit
#143
Oryx actualy does that. The Carry an everlasting plague like the locusts you are! (or however he says it) is an instance of a Sick counter.
Dammah, too, tells you not to interrupt him.
If you mean that you can’t enter them, that’s intentional.
Seelpit
#146
The key was accidentally left in. Removing it from the list of items given to fresh characters would’ve resulted in players still using them, since they’d just keep one in their vault, so the portal was rendered inenterable instead.
Having a Realm open is likely something that is too difficult to remove. I’m not fully in the know of all this.
ABearss
#147
Never mentioned O3 being balanced or easy. Look back at my very first post in this thread and read more carefully.
Pikaman
#148
Just some feedback.
-
I think the bosses should take longer to activate and close the boss room, maybe about 15 seconds longer so that everyone can get to the room before it closes if someone rushes to it and activates the boss early.
*Edit: Alternatively, you could teleport everyone to the entrance of the boss room similar to how all the players are teleported in crystal cavern. -
The walls that close off the boss rooms should be much thicker, so that tricksters can’t just teleport out of the arena to avoid dangerous phases. *Edit: The walls being thicker, or the whole hallway before the boss being filled in would also prevent Oryx from teleporting out of the boss room
-
To simplify things, 100% of the enemies should be required to be defeated before the gates open. When there are still a few enemies left, some people might get stuck behind the group and not make it to the boss room in time.
Imasquash
#149
Currently when leucryx(? Idk how to spell it, maybe look into giving him an easier name lol) changes phases, light --> dark, there is a huge frame lagspike. Often there are still projectiles on the screen when this transition happens. Maybe look into making it a more gradual change with a period of invuln, right now it’s just a little abrupt.
Another note is on the visibility of projectiles, you guys did a great job making them contrast with the background for the most part.
Problems:
oryx’s shield bearers, their weak shots are almost invisible.
A lot of the new shots are very small, meaning players can very easily obscure them, and since this is going to be a full realm activity I see that becoming a big issue. This was kinda showcased when toastrz opened dammah to maybe 100 people, I couldn’t see shit.
Also a side note, maybe in the future use reddit rather than the forums to take feedback. There is a lot of useless comments and stupid bickering bogging down this forum and it is not easy to filter through and find useful information. I think the upvote/downvote system would be very useful in finding out what people actually want rather than having to scroll through 100 comments of back and forth bickering that these threads usually devolve into.
Edit: also please fix the bards range buff, can’t test it while it’s main draw is broken
Kristian
#150
I think for the trickster issue the o3’s room should be accessed with a teleporter in the mini boss room like what crystal entity does, or of course just make thicker walls but then slow folks could get left behind.
Edit: add teleporters for the minibosses too, also the expose counter is the least threatening of the 4 counters, maybe make it expose+bleeding?
Backpedal
#151
Here are my full thoughts on O3.
At the very start, I think the three runes are flawed.
Needing three rare keys to access one dungeon is a steep requirement.
The statement made by Mrunibro just adds more questions.
There will be a system where using them (But failing to unlock oryx3) will return the rune to you. Otherwise they will be single-use.
What if the rune user nexuses / disconnects, but the rest of the group makes it to O3? What if the rune user dies on the way to O3?
If the rune user leaving makes the run impossible, there will be several trolls as a result (see rune purchasing below). Internet issues will also be on full display. If the rune user is capable of nexusing and the run can continue, discord channels will create an alt account to use the rune and nexus shortly after.
The dev team can’t fix this “return rune” issue. As long as there’s a return mechanism it will be abused. They could possibly require the rune use directly before O3, but that would still allow groups to kill the mini bosses.
“By the looks of it, we will likely continue with that system.”
It is fantastic to see the development team has great foresight about this obvious issue.
In addition there will be hustlers due to the rune rarity (even if the rarity decreases this could still be an issue). Smart individuals will charge for rune use (selling shield rune for 5 decas) because it will be an item in demand. And again, if there is a rune return mechanism these individuals could leave after opening the dungeon.
Ultimately the rune use alone (not even mentioning the extreme difficulty of the dungeon) will force people into discords. Everyone knows this (except the dev team apparently). This will result in tracker issues (like I stated above) where discords appear into realms where only a few enemies are left. Discords are all about speed and generally don’t like clearing realms. This results in a predatory relationship where the warriors come to pillage a village on a routine basis. There’s no way Deca can prevent this either, because discord leaders will send out several loyal players to scout for good locations.
The runes need to go if the dungeon is to be completed outside of discord. End of story. I don’t understand Mrunibro’s mental gymnastics desperately trying to make these three runes work.
Now once we finally get inside the dungeon, we have to deal with the adds. I don’t have too much to say about the adds. I honestly found them to be annoying bullet sponges. However, I will say that the minions capable of teleporting seem to mow down large groups. During several runs they simply teleported into the middle of the large group and massacred a bunch of people before they realized it. For this reason I think the teleport mechanic should be reworked with increased teleport time and very clear indications of where the teleport will occur. In the current state the teleport is impossible to notice in a meatball of players.
Now we get to the mini bosses.
Firstly, the boss wall closing mechanic needs to be reworked. During several runs, as soon as the “way” was open, some cheeky trickster would rush into boss and wall off the rest of the group. In it’s current state the wall is very abusable. A teleporter should be added to prevent this.
Second, players have noticed is that the archbishop is the easiest. This is because the archbishop has mechanics that for all intents and purposes can be ignored. When real runs on the testing sever finally happened, the group reset unless they got the archbishop.
Despite all my screeching, I could never get the group to follow the mechanics of dammah or gem. At this point in the dungeon it becomes apparent that the staggering and countering mechanics are not idiot proof. It seems that the development team has not tried to complete a single public Tomb and they just don’t understand that no amount of furious typing will get a horde of random players to follow even the simplest of directions. Again, this is another instance where Discords will come out on top over regular players.
I also agree with all of Tyii’s points about how gem should stay around longer after teleporting and how the final phase for gem should be toned down. The miasma phase for dammah should also have its damaged reduced.
Honestly, the stagger and counter mechanics are flashy, but they need to go if the devs want to pretend the dungeon can be completed outside of discord. There’s just no way regulars will understand them. Worse, it only takes a couple bad apples to ruin the experience.
Finally we get to Oryx 3. The first thing that becomes clear is that Oryx 3 has been playing lots of Sonic and he moves at the speed of light. The speed needs to be toned down significantly, as Oryx can sit on melees with ease and no amount of fancy footwork can dodge the shots (especially during celestial phase). Again, the stagger and counter mechanics need to go if the devs want to pretend the dungeon can be completed outside of discord. No amount of furious typing could convince people to stop attacking Oryx.
Your expectations for the restraint of realm players (or really any large group of people) is FAR to high. I will bet you that o3 will ALWAYS be staggered.
Again I agree with Tyii that the bomb phase needs to be changed.
Finally, the celestial and desperation phases are simply too hard and need to be toned down in terms of damage.
I really don’t know what to say about the dungeon in summary. You have two groups with two different opinions.
However, based on your statement that it can be completed outside of discord, almost everything needs to be toned down. This current dungeon will never be completed without proper planning ahead of time.
Everyone also seems to keep ignoring the fact that Kiddforce and his team of cronies continue to dream about pet nerfs, which will make this dungeon all the much harder.
In addition, making loot a high or guaranteed drop will also act as a double edged sword, as players will quickly get what they want, but may decide to stop running this tedious dungeon quickly once they get what they came for.
Imasquash
#152
Guess you are SoL, endgame dungeons require endgame players. And if you die in O2, you probably weren’t ready for O3. This issue was very easily solved by bringing multiple vials in each run of the halls and will be easily solved again by bringing multiple runes. Also what the hell is this “trolling” with the runes that you think will happen? It’s exactly the same as vials from lost halls, what leads you to think these issues will arise when they haven’t for halls?
Backpedal
#153
It’s different than a vial specifically because of what Mrunibro said about a return mechanic.
If the rune returns to you when you nexus, people can abuse that.
Also vials are guaranteed 1 per cult.
Hzohn
#154
This update is already amazing.
Chancellor Dammah is an amazing fight. The attacks are satisfying and it all feels fair. I can see this being possible on both melee and ranged. Every time I was hit it felt like it was my fault, because you are able to dodge all of the attacks.
Leucoryx I have no clue what’s going on, but it seems to be the easiest. I haven’t really done this fight to understand what’s going on, so I won’t say much.
Gemsbok is annoying. Being melee is horrible, and soloing gemsbok is akin to torture. He needs to teleport WAY less. Also, why can gemsbok petrify/paralyze you? Almost all of his shots are stacked. It’s basically a death sentence.
O3 starts out great. It feels fair, and you also have to constantly pay attention. Exalted phase is also pretty fun. Having to balance the messengers and dodging the pet stasis shots makes for a really exciting and fun fight, except for the one insta-kill bullshit attack that fills the screen. He goes around the room too many times. This would make more sense if it was akin the the Xolotl survival phase, where when he is done with the crazy attack, you can finish him off. Even then the shots do too much damage and everything stacks. Having this as a recurring attack is just not fair.
Finally, this entire thing seems EXTREMELY pet heavy. During the Dammah fight I was able to get pretty far without a pet because that is a great fight, but I could not possibly imagine doing o3 without a good pet. Every shot does 100+ damage, and my divine pet was keeping me afloat. I found myself focusing more on dodging the pet stasis shots than what Oryx was shooting. That is why it is surprising that as this gets announced, there is a massive nerf for a lot of commonly used feed power. This dungeon requires at least a legendary pet heal, which puts a paywall upon this highly anticipated dungeon.
Besides that, this update is a lot of fun. It’s (usually) a fair and exciting fight. I can’t wait to see where it goes!
Edit: The boss room closes too soon. I literally cannot catch up to the trickster who decides to be an asshole and close the entire dungeon.
Toastrz
#155
Just to be clear on the rune returning mechanic, the runes are used in the Wine Cellar after O2. If one or two runes are used but not all three to allow for the portal activation, the runes will then be returned to players. Once the Oryx’s Sanctuary portal is opened, then the runes are consumed for good. No rune usage will actually take place inside the sanctuary dungeon.
Yamikoto
#156
I feel like you guys REALLY need to nerf the Rage phase of O3 and Buff every other phase a bit. The Phase is extremely dangerous, can be reactivated by oryx multiple times (Literally, in 1 Oryx run I had that phase 6 times and died at the 6th since i had no hp and mp left and only survived cause of OREO before.). The content is really good, but for a perma death game this is too risky to even try because:
- You lose the rune which is extremely rare
- You lose an 8/8 Char
- You probably use high end pre t14 and t15 gear and lose it.
Just not worth to do it, especially since Void Tops aren’t really that much worse and way easier to get.
Backpedal
#157
Ok that clears it up.
However, can I ask why you are doing this? Did Deca mandate these three runes? Do you seriously believe a random group will successfully assemble all three runes?
Like at this point just admit that it’s a discord dungeon. Stop beating around the bush.