Public Testing this weekend!

#21

I actually agree with nerfing enforcer’s range, but not in the way that they’re doing it.

A big problem with multishot weapons with a big spread is that the “true range” is not the range that most people will be able to use it at, but rather the range you can use it at to hit a stationary enemy.

You might not really think about this because most of these type of weapons are weapons where you literally sit on the enemy (dblade and pixie)

Here’s a very bad illustration of where the hitboxes might align, with the colo sword for reference.
I propose that instead of increasing the arc gap, enforcer should just get a straight range nerf to 4 tiles. It keeps the the main goal of the nerf in play while making it more simple.

#22

the proposed changes to lab robe is ridiculously broken.

no, i’m not talking about wizard. with a max mheal pet you can already spam spelling spell without running out of mana so the addition of the robe does nothing.

i’m talking about priest.
t0 tome costs 60mp, with the lab robe’s ability that means in practice 35 mp per 100 hp at 75 wis.

i was able to solo rush and complete mbc without even trying to dodge
literly just run through oryxes and golems, cross slime tentacles, walk over crus.
as long as you dodge the silence pebbles even crossing mbc survival is a joke
spacebar = live

i would like to see the ability of the robe changed to something like:

-25% mana cost of ability use

or

refund 25% of mana cost on ability use

this would mean higher cost abilities still get basically +25 mana on use, while the more spammable abilities arn’t so broken.

#23

Or you know. a proc cooldown.

#24

I like that it just heals a flat amount of mana. It makes it scale strongly with low tier items, but fall off with higher tier items. Makes it very fun to use as a new player, but not as viable with end game gear. I think that it is fine

#25

Relative costs solve all these problems, but the tricky part here is that a discount relative to the cost of the item is currently not supported in procs. The OnAbilityActivate stuff has no concept of the ability item that was activated.

As a designer I can make no promises on code additions (especially close to a release like now), but no matter. I will try to find a way, or make one.

#26

But again there’s no reason to pick the katana classes over the sword classes.

Even an ST like swashbuckler’s sickle is better all around.

I hope this doesn’t mean that you’re going to “ram” all these changes through right away.

I think many of the changes were quite controversial.

This has been the debate time and time again. Whether UTs should be “better” than the tiered counterparts. The problem is Deca has applied this rule selectively, with some UTs being true upgrades.

My personal opinion is that for O3 the uts should be somewhat “op” due to the nature of the dungeon and the difficulty.

I know that when I get a white bag from O3 I want to be excited.

I just don’t understand. All the O3 timed runs were using wizards anyway. What threat did katana classes suddenly pose?

#27

Why not buff the other katanas (celestial, reikoku, etc.,) instead of nerfing the enforcer this much? It’s not that I think the enforcer shouldn’t be touched at all, but I think making it almost a second dblade is a bit too far…
Especially when the ninja and the samurai aren’t nearly as durable as something like a warrior, and this drops from Beisa from the sanctuary rather than the abyss.
As for the items I actually have…
The changes to the helms and poisons look really nice. Requiem needed that extra range, I always thought the mask looked funny for how big it was. Buffs to ritual robe and turncoat cape are great.
I can’t help but feel like the ray katana and kageboshi changes are disappointing. I was hoping for an actual rework for the katana and the kageboshi is like they copied what they did with the tablet, turning it into a ninja’s scorchium stone.

But what’s up with the now 6% xp bonus on Blazon Bow? I thought all Alien gear was supposed to have 7%??

#28

I’ve got some things to say about the things in this PT so I guess I’ll write them here. The visual changes to summons and stuff I don’t really care about, cool I guess? But the real meat of the matter is definitely in the item changes as the crystal cavern bossfight change is really insignificant, it feels like a step in the right direction but its such a minor change to the overall bossfight, its not a full rework of the fight and only lizard has changed noticeably. Definitely feels like these changes were made just to tidy up the xmls and coding of the fight since it was such a mess. Maybe this points to some larger changes soon to the fight, but for now it just seems like dev qol.

Most of the item changes are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, like the vile trap, plague poison, sealed crystal skull, orb of aether etc. I wonder why anyone even bothered to change the minimum damage of st spell from 53 to 55? I’m almost baffled by the insignificance of some of these changes compared to the big balancing stuff.

The ray katana change I like, its finally more dps than a single shot of enforcer, wow! But its a little uncreative, Tigers (all credit to him) came up with a much more interesting idea to use the AOO Maces mechanic of actual lasers to make ray katana a laser-shooting katana, I think that’d be cool but maybe too much effort for Deca.

Kageboshi change is fine too, this kind of multi-shot idea has been around since years ago so its nothing unexpected, but took way too long to get in.

Mad lab robe is definitely not making it to production servers as is.

Souls guidance is not a vanity anymore? What a world we live in. I guess resu change is fine too but I’m still not gonna do cems, that dungeon is horrible.

Esben staff still not worth using.

The lod armor procs seem like an interesting idea but only leaf hide is really good in my opinion, I think water silk kind of falls flat and fire armor is just not good to use on any of the melee classes because of the really long cooldown, also poison is just not that good, rather just have less total damage but have all of the damage be instant with a shorter cooldown. Or just change to a dps stat increase proc or something boring like that so that it could sometimes be worth using over gladiator guard.

Bee helm is kinda gaming now with the 100% chance to curse, but I think the range of it could be increased.

Bshed and ritual robe changes are fine. No amount of wis is going to put ritual robe over the sanctuary robes though with its low survivability.

Void quiver finally getting the treatment it deserves, and nil armor genuinely has me surprised as I thought that Deca would put on another odd proc effect or something.

The lumi and superior change is great, good job! The coin and turncoat cape buffs are quite good, but well deserved. Turncoat was kind of underrated as a rushing armor before but now even the unattuned will have to recognize its greatness.

Now for the big controversial change, enforcer. Honestly, I think nerfing the range is good, but I think that this is a bad way to do it, the arc gap should not be touched at all. Just reduce the range however much you like, as long as the true range (ability to hit both shots consistently on a single target) stays equal to the range of the katana. This would mean that enforcer would actually benefit from inspired (the current testing version does not) and it would feel much nicer to use, I don’t want to feel like im dblading while using enforcer. Any extra range beyond true range is completely pointless, and no one is going to be using that extra range to hit just one shot, they’re just gonna swap to a doku.

Ballistic star change is epic but going to take some getting used to.

Centaur’s shielding change is a direct buff but it’s still just kind of bad, the inconsistency in the buff is really awkward, I’d rather just have less att in the proc but have the proc on permanently.

Considering escutcheon is server-sided and thus has lots of delay, this massive buff was warranted.

Harp and nectar crossfire buffs seem quite powerful, not sure what to think of them.

Daring discoverer changes are quite good, the set was really underwhelming before.

TL;DR: Reduce range of enforcer but don’t touch the arc gap, do fire armor justice, make ray katana laser beam.

#29

I beg your pardon? Have you actually tried it? Thing absolutely shreds through multiple targets now. Unholy Sacrifice wishes it could fill the clearer staff niche the way Esben does now.

And ty ty, those were all mine ^u^

#30

It it supposed to be that there’s no halls, osanc etc spawning in this testing session? I joined testing just to get some o3 practice but there aren’t any dungeons spawning. Is this PT session just purely for players to test the item rebalance?

#31

Most of the items on this list being buffed I also have so I can’t really complain but… enforcer arc gap I think is a bit too large.

#32

Have you considered that it’s called “testing” and not “free Sanctuary practice” for a reason?
If Sanctuary was required to be involved, then it would have been provided.

#33

Other katanas 100% need a buff, and I agree that the gap is a bit too wide now, considering the true range is lower than some swords.

Here’s to hoping katanas like t14/celestial/doku/etc can become more viable. Even enforcer as it is on testing right now, in my opinion, isn’t bad enough to use any other katana. Which says a lot about how poorly the other katanas perform, I think.

#34

May we recall that tiered Wands almost beats out tiered Katana?

#35

I looked at the enforcer again in testing and compared it to videos of it’s current state in production.
It’s not just that it’s harder to use, it feels and looks worse too.
I just don’t like the changes to shot pattern on the weapon. Modify the range or damage as you will, but please don’t touch the arc gap and projectile speed change.

I realize that’s two replies I’ve made about the enforcer, a katana I don’t even have anymore on production, so I want to talk about the other changes:

Oryx’s greatsword’s increased range is something I find weird.
Before it matched the bastion’s (shield’s) range of 2.8, but now that has been increased to the standard sword range of 3.5.
The weapon needed a buff, but I’m not sure how this will feel with the rest of the set equipped, now that the sword has so much more range than the shield.

Hivemaster helm is better, but the new effects when you’re summoning several things at once? It works when you’re bringing forth a single animal at a time like with a mace, but on this helm there’s too much visual clutter.

#36

You can test the items in sanctuary.

In fact I’d go as far to argue that sanctuary is one of the only places where the changes matter.

Nobody out there is going to care if they can kill the fountain spirit .5 seconds faster.

People want to know how this affects endgame play.

Min/maxing is borderline useless for the rest of the game.

To be fair I don’t know how much input our “testing” is going to accomplish.

Like many astute players have said, some of the changes don’t really need to be tested to know the impact.

#37

Yes I have used it, I still fail to see the point. If your only options were esben and tiered, sure. But with Unholy Sacrifice there is just no contest in clearing ability specifically (and just general staff usability). The difference in dps just way too stark, a SINGLE SHOT of Unholy sacrifice does more damage than both of esben staves shots combined, and its got FOUR. The 55% rof on Unholy sacrifice doesn’t really affect its clearing ability at all (its piercing and has so many shots youre not going to be hurting for more shots when clearing), especially since when compared with esben it can one-shot lots of minions that esben simply can’t - an unbeatable advantage. Even Superior beats esben in clearing simply by having 4 shots and doing insane dps, very rarely would you have so many minions in front of you that esben would outperform superior, atleast in any dungeon where it matters. For example, I solo’d a Nest (one of the few dungeons where minion clearing really matters as its like 90% of the dungeon) and esben is just straight up bad. Glad to see they’re buffing it but its just not enough, and I’m not sure if esben even should be that good.

#38

yes, but what are you supposed to do, sit in nexus and shoot your enforcer? Doesn’t make much sense either, “Testing” implies you’re going to test it on something, and honestly I don’t see why DECA doesn’t provide Osancs, since it would allow users to both test and get some practice. Additionally osanc is a hard dungeon with a lot of variety and would really help testers determine their opinion on the new item rebalances. edit: I realized my point is very similar to backpedals point, but you get the idea

#39

not tryina start anything but i’ve just noticed that your replies have mostly been personally denying or accepting feedback when feedback is what you’re trying to get with testing in general. just take it with a grain of salt.

hopping on the enforcer nerf bad train, i do agree enforcer deserved a bit of a nerf but i think it could’ve been a small damage nerf instead of an effective range nerf.
i don’t think you can argue that such a nerf is “healthy” but not touch lumiare or superior at all.
the best wizard set can still dish out more damage than the best ninja set using the proposed enforcer, while having more survivability and more range than the ninja. which really shouldnt be allowed.

perhaps my opinion on this is biased, considering i have a max exalted wizard and not a max exalted ninja.

i’m not saying nerf wizard too, o3 whites have a justifiable reason to be the best items in the game, instead of being a side grade to something from LoD.

#40

Buffing and giving new purposes to some of the game’s less used UTs is great, but there are a few concerns I have about some of the more overpowered ones:

  • Hivemaster Helm: I think giving it 100% curse and no cooldown is a bit too strong. Recently mystic had her berserk removed from tiered orbs and now no other single item has had two consistent buffing capabilities in one since then. Normally you would require another item to either swap to or equip such as paladin with the ST viking horn and sword, mystic conflict and tiered, warrior helm and banner and so on. Giving both berserk and curse with 100% chance on a single item is way too strong, and not only that its also on the most dps heavy class in the game. I think a more balanced change would be to keep the removed cooldown but simply fix the chance of curse to be 50%. You can refresh the bees to get the curse you want.
  • Robe of the Mad Scientist: As many have said before, the robe is just too strong on low MP cost items due to the flat MP regain. I suggest giving it a short energised proc on ability use with a moderate to high cooldown (15 seconds possibly) so that it still serves the purpose of refilling some of your MP but it can’t be abused using low MP costs.
  • Ballistic Star: Although I have never tried the star prior to the change, I still feel like the shots are unaimable on non moving or slow targets even at close range despite being now aimed at the cursor. However, it feels great to use on chasing targets so I will just leave it at that.
  • Centaur’s Shielding: In my opinion this is still easily the worst and least inspired O3 UT. The increased ATK boost duration does not see much use in solo play unless you are using very specific items and in group play the longer duration is unnecessary anyway since you will likely always have the healing buff on you. I think a complete rework of the item would be preferable, steering away from being DPS oriented since Tenne already fills that niche.
  • Staff of Esben: I think the changes to the projectile pattern is great and its now usable as a mid-tier clearing staff. I just wished the damage could be increased, since it has lower DPS than a T8 staff and it will definitely be hitting less of its shots than a regular staff.
  • Ray Katana: Much needed and good change. My only hope now is that the sprite is changed or updated to look more like an event white, since it’s the most simple and blandest looking out of them.
  • Nil: In my opinion, increasing DEF will not make the armour more appealing. Maybe adding a little HP but reducing the DEF by a bit will make it a great endgame option.
  • Tricorne of the High Seas: Because the proc cooldown was halved, it’s a bit too strong in mid level game play now. You can tank and easily shrug off damage whilst still getting the cannon blast and it shreds through gods. I think it’s even good enough in mid level that its effectively a better option than tiered helms, now that its cooldown is removed.
  • Sealed Crystal Skull: Still a very underwhelming UT. I think it could benefit from having WIS mod be applied to its radius so that it will be an even better skull for clusters of enemies as well as a WIS mod that will scale healing range better than other skulls (since its exactly the same as other skulls currently). As of now, it just makes little sense to use this skull over tiered ones as a trade off of lower damage and stat boosts for a measly 1.25 tiles is not worth it.

Overall though, the item changes are very welcome and they will provide greater variability in playstyle and give more underappreciated items a greater use.

As for the new Crystal Entity changes, it still feels like a very easy boss in small groups. The issues I found were:

  • The minibosses received very little substantial changes and they do not feel very threatening. A suggestion I can think of is making it so two minibosses spawn at once instead of one at a time, with of course a few tweak to how frequently each miniboss attacks so that players aren’t quickly overwhelmed.
  • Crystal entity still dies way too quickly despite increased HP and armoured, and the phases in between minibosses where it is vulnerable does not feel challenging since you can easily deal enough damage for it to move on to the next phase without having to care about dodging. The final phase also has the same issue.
  • Crystal entity’s attacks are just pure damage based and don’t do any status effects making it a very tank friendly boss fight. As long as you can out tank the shots then there is no reason to move and dodge. Adding more varied attacks would be nice.

On another note, can crystal worm mother stop shooting during crystal child phase? You are punished for circling between the flower shot pattern for no reason because she can shoot into those spots making for a not fun segment of the fight.