Reworking the prism

#2

well thought out. how would the spirit prism (one with bomb) work?

interesting idea though, but when you use it, do you still teleport?

#3

And yes you will still teleport. I think teleportation on its own can not make the class, because as of right now the decoy is pretty much useless but i want to keep both of those elements as part of the prism

#4

The only thing i really want changed, is making ghostly actually usefull

#5

Yeah I think ghostly defintly needs a change, im working on making a post about it but i wanted to focus on this part of the prisms atm

#6

I never bump my own post but

#7

Neat, and quite a lot of illustrations, you’ve definitely given this some thought!

From the way I understand, enemies in the game have chase speed, wander speed, et cetera. This means that they would ignore their usual behavior and instead proceed to try and sit on the decoy. The problem I have is, as usual, in drag-trolling. I had some discussion about a class idea I made with a similar ability here. You might be interested.

Also, shameless plug commence

#8

Yes I thought of this too but it decoys are not always predictable direction wise so I think the dragging aspect would require more effort then it’s worth. Another thing is the majority of players don’t drag in realm and can do so. You could drag far more effectively with a prot priest or even the t6 tome but still you won’t see the majority of preist dragging because most of the time irs counter productive for both people.

Yes the ability is intriguing and it’s sort of how I would want the prism to be.

I’m working on another depiction to better show how the enemies will be acting towards the decoy but pretty much they will chase and sit on you like the oryx minions do in the castle.

#9

Again I’m never a fan of bumps buy here I go again
I shall do it in my own language this time and a few other ones

Tlačit~ Duwen~إدفع~Pousser

I’m interested in the community’s opinion on this because I think it’s defintly time for some kind of change to be made to the tricksters prisms

#10

This is a pretty great idea. Prisms as they are don’t work particularly well, barely dragging an enemies shot or attention. With this a trickster would be incredibly useful, especially in late game dungeons.
Just imagine all the shatters drags you could nullify!

#11

Thanks comrade

Exactly the trickster is such an interesting idea that is beloved by many players and has so much potential to be of real use in the game.

Another thing I hope is this would bring more people playing the trickster because the current challenge it offers right now is not worth it for many players to use it a lot espically newer players with a limited amount of characters

#12

I personally disagree with this concept for a Prism rework. The ineffectiveness comes from the short duration and the randomized stopping location. (You can control the direction the decoy walks, so that would not be included.)

If used properly, as with anything really, it can be used as a ranged stun on monsters like O2. (And it isn’t that hard considering how many attempts you can get with the relatively low MP costs.)

I believe that you’ve made a mistake in your diagram, the one depicting what you’d expect and what really happens. What really happens is that you and the decoy meet in the same place. If your aim was the second picture then you’d need to use a second teleport, of which the second decoy may cause problems.

Anyway, I like that your concept makes T0 not nearly as useful when compared to higher tiers, but the coding needed to be put down to accommodate this is unwieldy for such a change. Let me explain, what you suggest is that each prism has a different agro radius. Monsters have their own radius and players/current decoys act as a moving point on a plane, where if it finds itself inside a monster’s agro radius it will be tracked.

This can also backfire, it isn’t exactly a 100% positive change. Say that the decoy is closer to an enemy than the player is, but the enemy is out of the decoy’s range. The monster will ignore the decoy and track the player, making it rather worthless.

Not to mention what Barablazer stated, that the decoy could simply act as a beacon that calls all monsters to another player. Another issues that comes with this is if the decoy is behind you and a monster is in front of you. The monster will charge right through you, unexpectedly, in order to get the decoy.

I honestly cannot think of a solution for the issues I pointed out, if I could then I would provide it. From my perspective, the best change to prisms would be to eliminate the randomness and raise the duration. Extremely simple in comparison.

I can appreciate the effort put into this, the diagrams and what not, but I feel as though the idea itself is heavily flawed.

Oh, and please point out if I misunderstood anything, that wouldn’t be too far-fetched.

#13

They meet in the same place yes. I dident want to make it overly complicated. But once they are in the same place they move away. That is what is being depicted, as stated in the second diagram. “Moving away from the enemy”

Well yes the prism won’t be a all powerful item that require no effort to use. “Making it rather worthless”. Miss a stun it’s useless, miss a quiver shot it’s a useless, miss your poison throw it’s useless. Yes you can’t just randomly use your item and expect good results, like any ability you have to put some effort in to use the ability effectively.

Yes dragging. Any class can drag monsters onto people. I don’t think this would suddenly cause the majority of realm to start trying to drag monsters onto people. People who do that are a small minority and do not reflect the game so worrying about that wouldn’t make much sense since you could drag far more efficiently with a jugg or prot

Again any ability in the game requires some skill and effort to use correctly and safely. A rouges cloak could get you killed far easier than this.

Raising the duration of a item that does almost nothing won’t do anything. You need to change the larger mechanics of the ability to really make it effective

I don’t think my idea is perfect but in no way is it heavily flawed, I’m always thinking about ways to refine my ideas but I would consider the current one a pretty solid proposition

I don’t think you misunderstood anything I just thing you were thinking very vaguely about my idea. I’d recommend looking at other current abilities in the game. But also I thank you for taking your time to give your analysis on this

#14

Then what is the purpose of reworking the ability…? The current prism has its own faults already, all that will happen is an exchange of negatives.

You just strawmanned my argument :confused:

Although not clearly stated, I was not talking about intentional dragging. Either way it would act like a beacon regardless of where it lay. This means that, intentional or not, the decoy can easily drag monsters in an undesirable way as I mentioned in the scenario afterwards.

That is a faulty analogy. You can’t kill another player with your own cloak. RotMG, as far as I know, has no mechanics other than dragging that allow for player killing.

Alright, at this point I don’t believe you are even accepting any of my constructive criticism.
Anyone that plays Trickster regularly knows that the big issue is time for this “long ranged stun.” It takes 1-2 seconds for the decoy to get in place. Then it requires that the player takes position to abuse this. Depending on where the decoy lands, it takes anywhere from 2-5 seconds to do this. They are then left with 0.5-3.5 seconds to actually use this decoy. (And that is considering if you were even able to use it at all.)

A seven second duration would allow two and a half more seconds to set up and take advantage of the decoy. What you said was like saying that raising the stun duration on the Knight does nothing.

I probably was wrong in saying the idea was heavily flawed, it just came out that way I suppose, of which I apologize for.

I’d like to believe that I put lots of thought into my posts; if I didn’t think about it I wouldn’t have posted it at all.

#15

It’s being exchanged for a better idea that will be balanced. I would consider every ability to have some kind of “fault” or folly that is what keeps it balanced

Also not every thing is set in stone so some parts of my idea may chance to better it

The enemies may go in the way of another player but seeing as they are following the prism they won’t to after random people and also I would expect people to move if they see a group of monsters coming their direction

Your inital point was that the prism would harm the player if used. And I was saying a cloak could also end up harming a player

You are comparing the knight shield to the trickster prism. The decoy currently is highly ineffective, I use trickster it’s not because of the duration. The enemies rarely attack the decoy in the first place and when you are in a fast paced dungeon you won’t have time to even try to set up to use it and even when you so it’s still the regular prism just with a longer time. I don’t think most think the problem with the prism decoy is the duration on it.

I thanked you for your analysis of my idea. All I’m doing is replying to your criticism. In all my post I’ve asked for commentary which you gave me and again I thank you for showing me the concerns some people might have

Yes you did put a lot of thought in your post. I used the word vague to describe what you said, that was not the right wording for it. English is not my first language so when I have to reply to larger post like your own. I start to have to use a translator and it really bogs me down.

Again thanks for discussing with me. If I ever feel like I am not open to yours or anyone else criticism I’m not. I’m open to whatever people have to say on and welcome it

Edit- this sounds rude but I don’t have the capacity to keep these lengthy replies up comrade it’s really testing my English lol

#16

I haven’t got as much time to write a lengthy reply anymore, so consider yourself lucky, lol. Also, if it helps, I can use less complex words to make it easier for you.

I’ll just reply to a few points for now, then I’m off again.

Self harm I’d argue is okay because it is the player’s fault, but any way to directly “attack” another player is not. Hence why speedy to all was removed from the Warrior’s Helm. That is why I dislike that part of the idea, not just because it can harm a player.

I intentionally compared the prism to the shield because they are similar. They both can eliminate a monster’s attack to a player, just in different ways. (The decoy is a bit harder to use in comparison of course, but for having the ability to have a longer range stun, it makes sense for it to be harder to use.)

Also, a useful trait of the decoy is having the monsters track the decoy instead of you in fast paced dungeons. You won’t even have to fight them and they won’t form an angry mob as they would with any other class rushing. Err, except the Rogue. The 5.5 duration in these scenarios is acceptable, heck, even the 3 seconds is fine if ya swap to T0 for more teleports.

#17

So… I would assume that the enemies will still fire at the decoy?

As an ex-owner of the Trix, I honestly think that its ability is good as it is, and that drawing enemies to your decoy is already there; if enemies’ behavior include sitting on you. Besides that, I think this’ll instead break some bosses. Imagine ava, forgotten king, marble colossus, etc. moving from their place. That’s pretty deadly. And if not, some enemies ignore the “drag”, then I don’t see too much difference with the normal tiered prism.

Perhaps you can explain how it is different from the normal tiered prisms on enemies like those. Some enemies already has a very close preferred range with their targets, and having it drag seems redundant, if not unneeded.

#18

It wouldn’t work on those enemies just like they are stun immune. I’m reworking the prism not making an entirely new ability. The current decoy ability does not work at all, I’ve learned this very well from having many tricksters. I think the decoy is a great idea but it just needs to actually work as a decoy

This new idea of the decoy won’t be incredibly different, what it is doing is making it actually worthwhile. You saying having it drags seems redundant . The regular prism decoy is a suppose to pretty much do what this does. The decoy is a suppose to draw enemies away but it does not at all

You may be one of the very few who think that. I like the teleporting but you like the current decoy? Deca has already said they plan to rework the ability so it’s widely considered a very bad ability and a very ineffective one.

I want to improve the current standing idea and transform it into something people would actually want to use.

I think we can both agree on this. Almost everyone who uses the trickster does not use the high teired prisms, and that is for a reason. Right now the only use they have is mobility. I’m very experienced with tricksters and even I can’t come close to making use of the current decoy.

#19

My point is this; If enemies can be dragged to it, it will be because of its behavior of charging the player, like the brutes. If enemies shouldn’t be dragged, then it will not be dragged via its behavior, no need to code in more immunities to pinning enemies down with your prism.

Perhaps you are indeed more well versed with tricksters, as I haven’t had many, but I honestly do prefer using the higher tiered prism. I have saved lives distracting buff stone bunny’s attacks somewhere safe with a low level trickster.

If Deca changes it, and if they do use your idea, I will swallow my words and deal with it.

Edit:
Also, this

I would prefer this

#20

I don’t really understand what you are saying

Guess there’s a first time for everything

And about what JawsJakt said,please explain to me how more duration would make it better.

As of now most decoy’s get completely ignored by enemies so I just am confused as how adding more time to something that does not work would suddenly make it work. It is a decoy, it’s purpose is to draw enemies attention to it but the current one does not. A longer duration will just leave you having a decoy idly running around for a longer time

Edit- it’s like giving a car that breaks down all the time better gas mileage. It won’t really matter because you are not dealing with the real issue

#21

Hmm… I may have made a quick presumption. Perhaps you could list some examples for enemies which aren’t affected by the “drag” effect?

It draws enemy fire. I don’t know what you’ve been doing with your decoy, but it certainly works for me.

I think that’s our difference. I don’t think it’s a bad car. The issue that the car has that I felt was that the decoys were designed to use its entire duration, while the effective duration is less by about 1.5 seconds.