Secluded Thicket rebalance and polish patch proposal


#1

The basic premise here is buffing the underpowered items of Thicket, along with parts of the bosses that are too weak for their intended tier.

Penetrating%20Blast%20Spell
Changes:
Damage: 60-90 (Avg. 75; 1500 Total) -> 85-100 (Avg. 92.5; 1850 Total)
MP cost: 65 -> 80
Shot Pattern: Straight -> Wavy (1 tile amplitude once per 0.1 seconds)
Passive Stats: 20 HP 2 Att -> 20 HP 2 Att 2 Dex

Why: Since the spell originates from one point in the middle of a crowd, the piercing becomes less and less impactful the farther the enemies, it also has low damage per shot getting very weakened by the defense of even many regular enemies, with these changes it also gets wavy shots to cover more area and hit more times, and passive stats that compete slightly better with new tiered given the high likelihood more classes will get wismod eventually, all of this making it a more viable sidegrade overall.

image
Changes:
Wisdom: 10 -> 16

Why: Now, the stat total is fine on this one, but for one reason or another MP is definitively the worst stat to invest heavily in right now, even if we consider In-Combat is coming pretty soon, comparing to Shendyt of Geb, the 3 wis gain doesn’t actually affect any significant number of builds, and the 155 MP might be a big number, but few if any would pick that over 15 def, 25 hp and 7 vit either, so i figured pumping the wisdom up to 16 would be the best way to make it a sidegrade despite the massive survivability loss, why 16 and not 15? That gets one more target than 15 with Devastation Scepter + Condu (pretty annoying how you miss that one wis with Ritual, but wismod rebalance doesn’t seem to be a prority to Deca right now, so it had to be made for what we have now :man_shrugging:)

tl3pWVQ
Changes (When armored buff is nerfed):
MP per second: 40 -> 15
Addition: +15 Vit while key held

Why: Simply put, the MP consumption on this one is insane compared to any other ability out there, costing 40 + your MP recovery per second, up to 90 if your pet is max level, just for 1 second of armored, this would make it a much better Ninja sidegrade to Jugg, being a more self-benefitting ability in compensating for berserk with the vit buff, a vit buff that plays into compensating for Tenne’s bad defense, especially if you get the ring’s 5 more vit too, resulting in a pretty major total In-Combat timer reduction. It might still not be able to be kept up at all times like Jugg now, but its’ fairly low MP per second still benefits greatly from otherwise weak MP leathers like Harlequin or Skuld Mantle.

Sealed%20Crystal2
Changes:
Passive Stats: 50 HP 4 Dex 4 Vit -> 50 HP 5 Dex 5 Vit

Why: The stats are just a minor fix so it actually does something with the IC/OoC formula, which only works in increments of 5.

The change to

Drops:
Daybreak Chakram, Hirejou Tenne, Heavenly Magatama: Now drop from Xolotl too, at a lower rate than Reikoku.
Xolotl now drops a guaranteed effusion for everyone who makes it to the end, along with a bit more guaranteed life and life in general, a good comparison would be Tomb, as they’re both once-per-realm, but Thicket does require you to skip Oryx

Why: To offer more incentive to stay in the dungeon until the end, and because these other changes would make the dungeon significantly harder. (Also because effusions are a bit too rare for what they are)

2zBZOj0
Changes:

sf5WThc
Debuff: None -> Pet Stasis (1.4 seconds for the one with the longest range, adding 1.4 seconds the further back and lower damage the variant)

YVhbMLg
Now armor pierce
Now predict movement in phase 3
Movement Speed: 10 -> 5 Tiles per Second

6EZ3T0e
Changes:

Now orbit Tezcacoatl about 2 tiles farther during phase 3

nZ4esuY
Speed: 15 -> 5 Tiles per Second
Range: 1.95 -> 10 Tiles

vnbO9OV
Now armor pierce
Damage: 80 -> 65

LWmvPFD
Now fires spreads of 3 with 30 degrees apart during phase 7
Speed: 7 -> 3.5 Tiles per Second

Why: The most changed one for a good reason:

Despite arguably having the best drops in the dungeon right now, the difficulty of this boss definitively does not reflect that, with its’ only attacks able to put a dent in any group of decent characters being the one with confusing minions and slow shots (phase 6), that do massive damage but are very predictable, the minions are practically harmless in phase 2 due to their extremely small range, some phases are practically harmless to players with maxed defense due to their overall extremely low damage and no armor pierce or major debuffs, like the phase 3 tooth shots or phase 5 minion train shots, phase 3 is too repetitive due to the fact you just circle and the same applies to phase 7 for being just single shots.
These changes seek to address all of these in different ways, the shots with extremely low damage now armor pierce, phase 3 minions give you more space, and Tezcacoatl’s shots are slower, but now they also predict movement and do decent damage, so just circling won’t cut it, and phase 7 is now about dodging slow spreads, with all these changes, Tezcacoatl’s drops are more justified, as he no longer is far below El Dorado, practically rolling over and dying to players with maxed defense, which are a large chunk of the players entering Thicket, given its’ tier.

5quZEAa
Changes:

image

yUdCBGb
Now armor pierces
Damage: 90 -> 70
Speed: 3.5 -> 6 Tiles per Second
Sick Duration: 1.4s -> 3.5s
(OBS: Mask variant changes = Armor pierces; Sick Duration: 1.4s -> 2s)

PSr0LuI
Now pierces players
Damage: 60 -> 190
Debuff: Blind 1.4s -> Stun 2.5s

image
Now chases a little slower, by say, 20%

Why: Among all the tribesmen, the Insect Tribesman sticks out like a sore thumb as being far more of an annoyance than a real threat to any kind of character, with his insignificant damage, equally insignificant debuffs, and the blind having no reason to be there but to annoy, and painfully slow sick shots that wouldn’t be a threat even if they stung a little, he’s the only changed part about El Dorado, receiving quite a major buff to match the other Tribesmen and have a dynamic of his own in weaving through the sick shots and avoiding the single, high damage stun (don’t tell me he doesn’t look like he’s holding a shield) shot.

Meanwhile, the Bird Tribesman sticks out in terms of threat above the rest… a bit too much for its’ overt chasing aggressiveness in the second phase, especially with confusion, it poses a constant threat of confusing and/or sitting on you that makes it significantly less manageable for melees than the other tribesmen, knocking its’ speed down a peg should make it more even with the rest.

xFWvgyV
Changes:

Qgl8efy
Now armor pierces
Damage: 125 -> 95

Bl41oD1
Damage: 80 -> 100

zFmBCnY
Damage: 130 -> 150

image
Damage: 120 - > 150

AMOHg6V
Damage: 140 -> 160

pm8GbfO
Radius: 3 -> 1
Landing Time: ?s -> 0.1s

xTe3tkN

R6Av8R3
Now armor pierces
Damage: 105 > 95

Survival phase spreads now try to aim inside where the rotation will be, rather than being much more inconsistent due to always aiming cardinally or diagonally

Survival phase now waits 5 seconds before beginning to shoot spreads, and waits another 5 seconds before beginning to throw out lightning, 10 seconds longer

Why: As Xolotl’s overall drops were improved, and to better match the ability to punch through groups he should have as a fairly lategame, life dropping boss, his damage was slightly increased across the board, and his survival phase’s spreads are more predictable and consistent to avoid, but also more consistently dangerous rather than sporadically being or not being a threat depending on which “triangle” you’re positioned in, his survival phase sick grenades were also given a much shorter radius to stop hitting people inside the arena, but given an almost instant landing time to keep them an effective anti-cheese.

Last but not least, the phase now has an added 10 seconds of building up the intensity from a relatively tame initial 5 seconds of not shooting spreads or lightning at the start to make the phase just a little bit more learnable for those inexperienced, however this shouldn’t increase the difficulty at all, as much as it is just a warmup.


#2

Accidentally posted too early, oh well, gonna finish up the rest, involving the bosses.


#3

It’s finished now, any feedback is appreciated.


#4

It’s late for me, but I’d be willing to pitch in a couple thoughts I’d no one beats me to it!


#5

Honestly, I just feel like the changes to the bosses don’t do much to make the dungeon interesting. Instead, they just take Thicket from CoO-tier to (arguably) Nest/Fungal-tier but bumping up the damage and adding debuffs. Thicket already feels like it’s the hardest CoO dungeon, so I don’t see why it needs to be any harder.

The item changes are fine though, save for the Daybreak Chakram change. My perspective is simple: if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.


#6

Shaitan is significantly harder to most people, also, the damage and debuffs to Tezcacoatl were a simple way to make him more interesting, why? It’s in the post, his attacks are so weak you don’t need to dodge most of them at all, by making it so defense doesn’t shut down almost all his attacks (along with some of xolotl, and the insect tribesman), you actually have to avoid and learn these patterns, making them function much better without needing any reworks, patterns are no good if there’s no need to dodge them after all.
The debuffs were barely increased at all, only the damage, so this dungeon doesn’t exactly reach Fungal level with these changes, Tomb does alot more damage than this but most people wouldn’t consider it Fungal tier for example, why raise the damage? Most characters entering Thicket have max defense, and alot of attacks (especially Tezcacoatl’s) just get trivialized by it for some reason, i also figured that since Xolotl’s drops are the worst out of the dungeon it would fit to add more incentive by adding better drops to also buff him.

Daybreak Chakram is just not worth the MP cost, it drains your entire MP bar in a few seconds even if you have a divine pet


#7

That’s a fair point. I tend to forget that Shaitan’s got reworked into a much harder fight than it was on release.

Another fair point. That said, I feel like the IC/OOC changes will probably punch a small hole in the “just stand there and tank it lol” strategy, but we’ll have to wait and see that.

In general, I don’t think that balancing should be looked at until after the IC/OOC changes. Things are gonna get harder simply because that new mechanic will be in place, so that’s something to consider.


#8

Nah, it really won’t make Tezcacoatl significantly harder, no need to trust me, just trust the damage numbers (some shots do so little damage even max def robe classes can tank them effortlessly)


#9

Some slight changes:

  • Xolotl survival now warms up for the initial 10 seconds to make the phase more learnable, but the fully built up part retains the same length;

  • Tweaked the damage of a few shots;

  • Specified a rough rate for Xolotl to drop life and effusions at.


#10

I don’t really like any of these changes, but I like the changes to Tezcacoatal.


#11

I may sound like a noob, but what is CoO? I am unfamiliar with that abbreviation.


#12

…oxymoron?


#13

That goes to show how often the public cares about it… :smirk:

It stands for “The Court of Oryx.”


#14

Another small change, while i’m at it:

  • Changed Daybreak Chakram back to disabling MP recovery, but with a much smaller MP cost, no constant upkeep possible, but now it benefits from armors like harle or mantle, otherwise weak ones.

#15

Yeah, I guess I could’ve worded it a bit less contradictory huh? Hehe.


#16

Ahh, ok. I have never seen it abbreviated that way, so I wasn’t sure. I feel like I should’ve known this given the fact that I’ve played for so long, and that fact that I’ve done em so many times.


#17

This topic was automatically closed 180 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.