Why is Nest so unpopular?

#110

Please explain whats so stupid.

#111

Only the final bee drops armor and quiver. The armor is not that rare from the event so you probably overestimated 300.

#112

That’s kind of the challenge. It’s not too hard to dodge the shots.

Learn confuse controls or dodge confuse.

Teleportation would enable leeching which is exactly what deca is trying to prevent. Just follow the group, the nest event was popular because it meant extra loot, which is the reason every event is popular.

The size is fine, and Abby is longer then nest room wise, and changing it to Abby length is the opposite of what you want lol

It’s the perfect size. Too big and boss is a joke.

I agree with hp scale for sure

White drop rate is extremely high, greater Dex is already guaranteed. 5 life is insane, please no. Definitely disagree about nest not being accomplishable in large groups, nest got steamrolled during event.

But you previously just said people were getting it often. I feel like your just salty about not getting it tbh. It’s already common compared to other event whites like jugg.

Agree with both of these.

#113

In other perspective
It too hard for most player

#114

Only changes nest needs is better loot and nerfing the yellow bee rage mode, its way too fast and will catch you and pretty much insta you.

#115

the number of shotguns used by enemies in the nest is extremely small, especially in comparison to the tomb of the ancients whose bosses utilize them almost exclusively. the real reason is the sustained volley of spread-out projectiles, requiring you to dodge constantly instead of the occasional shotgun.

fair

also a concern

stops rampant leeching, which is the REAL reason the nest event was popular. tons of people actually leeched past the boss itself and only went after the chest. and even more people tp’d outside the boss room when it went into rage phases to avoid death once they got sb.

again, no hiding, no leeching. another advantage is that is forces you into close range anyway, giving melee classes fair opportunities for sb instead of lod-style projectile walls barring melee participation.

I mean seriously, it’s not undodgeable, and it’s not unmanageable if you get hit

well, I don’t know about you but I see a ton of bee helms every now and then. and on top of this:

I’m not sure you’re qualified to make that call

I don’t actually know what your problem with that phase is. once you actually get used to it dodging said shotgun is pretty simple

see above .gif ^

see above, again the real reason the nest event was popular was because it enabled leechers

this I don’t have a problem with

how much bigger? I’d be okay with an extra tile width on the bridge ring, but not with turning it into an ot/tomb/cdepths sized arena. those rooms have way too much room to hide and do nothing

hp scaling on nest minions isn’t a bad idea, it would definitely help out smaller groups. also just an FYI: mrunibro soloed the nest on all 14 classes during testing. it’s technically soloable now.

yes

anecdotal evidence, and possible exaggerated too. means nothing. based on everyone else’s experience I’d have to say it’s already among one of the more common event whites.

this is definitely a problem. in total they have nearly half the hp of the avatar (which is a lot), but unlike the avatar or even the lost sentry they are all very fast, very mobile, and have a very wide range to fly around in. in fact, no other event boss is as mobile or hard to hit as the 3 beehemoths, yet each one individually has more hp than every other event boss save for the avatar, the lost senty, and the jade/garnet statues (they’re tied with these two). for one of the most intense dungeons in the game, they really have a very boring and grind-y event boss

this would also be a welcome change, as it reduces the grind portion of the event boss.

while you have a couple good points (probably the most common ones out there anyway), most of this sounds like someone with insufficient experience trying to get the second hardest dungeon in the game made into something easier to swallow. it’s not happening. try getting some more experience in beyond those 3 nests you did, a lot of people are scared of it not just because it’s hard, but because it’s new.

#116

While I agree that the nest is a challenging dungeon, I think it unfairly punishes players who get hit by any of the shots with crippling status effects like armor broken pet stasis, and paralyze.

“Learn confuse controls or dodge confuse.”

Sounds simple enough right?

The average human response time to stimuli is about a fourth of a second.

You have to switch your mind to a different way of moving your character for a few seconds,then switch back when you are no longer confused. It says on the wiki, “Don’t count on your ability to tank the shots: you must dodge everything to the best of your ability or you will die.” So when my own physics limitations can make me unable to finish a dungeon I feel slightly cheated.

“Definitely disagree about nest not being accomplishable in large groups, nest got steamrolled during event.” Of course the boss and dungeon are going to get obliterated when there are literally more than a hundred maxed characters attacking it!!! What else would happen?

“But you previously just said people were getting it often. I feel like your just salty about not getting it tbh. It’s already common compared to other event whites like jugg.”

Neither of these items are common by any means. When I see more people with freezing quivers than with the bee quiver I know why. It’s because people wanted to do the tomb event. If you go on realmeye right now, more of the top 100 archers have the freezing quiver than the beehemoth quiver.
No one does the event, so nearly no one has the quiver.

"the number of shotguns used by enemies in the nest is extremely small"
This is just total BS. The boss has it, the secret boss has it. And all of the soldier bees chase you down and fire omnidirectonally, or in simpler terms, a radial shotgun. These enemies are the core of the dungeon and the main reason the nest is one of the more debated dungeons in terms of legitimate difficulty.

@Xaklor says:
" rampant leeching, which is the REAL reason the nest event was popular."

Or the fact that it gave two of the items with the highest feed power in the game :thinking:

“tons of people actually leeched past the boss itself and only went after the chest.”

I think it really says something about the dungeon’s design when people don’t even want to participate in completing the boss.

“also just an FYI: mrunibro soloed the nest on all 14 classes during testing. it’s technically soloable now.”

Wow, that’s amazing!!1!1!! Did the guys over at the kool kids club i mean the closed testing group by any chance happen to record this amazing feat??? What? No? You mean you have no way to verify this already far fetched claim? What a shame…

“again, no hiding, no leeching. another advantage is that is forces you into close range anyway, giving melee classes fair opportunities for sb instead of lod-style projectile walls barring melee participation.”

You don’t have to force players into an extremely small space in order to engage everyone in the fight. One of the few things I like about the lost halls is the marble colossus’s fight for the most part. It has its fair amount of dodging and weaving, but nothing too crazy. It has phases that sort of act like a break for the main part, where the nest is lacking such a break to reorient yourself. This coupled with an often massive group of players makes the nest a very chaotic environment that doesn’t really allow you to learn much about the boss from completing it. All in all, I agree with OP. I would rate the dungeon
5/10. Good concept but not everyone is that patient or skilled and is often just left dissatisfied with the dungeon.

#117

This gets banded about a lot. I can fully believe it’s true but there’s two points to this:

  1. He designed and refined the shot patterns so not really quite the learning curve there.
  2. He had an infinite number of keys (and I assume characters) to accomplish this task.

Make no mistake, I’m not criticising this feat which I couldn’t achieve under any circumstances but he did have quite the advantage over everyone else…

#118

because not every people can play good, like our nest creator mrmunibro who solo it with warrior 70/70 heal electric… i agree for nerf this dungeon a lil bit (tbh ever since this dungeon release my milestone clear nest only 7 times , and now deca remove nest event requirement for close realms, it’s almost impossible to normal players like me to get mark)

#119

There is a discord for nests.

#120

can you PM me invite?.. thanks before

#121

Teleporting and a closed-wall boss room do not go well together because it promotes abuse such as scripting auto-teleport to get players out into safety of an “anchor” player.

I personally would prefer they abolish the closed room mechanism and allow players to back away from the fight to heal/etc. I love soloing O2 with all that space in his room to run around, and go in on attack runs, much more than I enjoy a minimal movement close-range dodging like Killer Bee Queen requires. The game just doesn’t seem consistently reliable enough with lag and inaccurate movement, to me, to try to do Touhou style battles, and I end up feeling like I’m trying to untie a shoelace knot while playing Operation, or something.

But the main flaw IMO with this type of fight is because Rotmg has a learning process being learn-through-errors, it is a catch-22 as it gives no opportunity to observe the fight, and gradually increase your participation, because you have to be right in the centre throughout. It pushes players to cheat-methods, because nobody wants to waste effort on a character to die “stupidly”, but you can’t get that experience easily with KBQ being held behind the Nest (event) which nobody does, the slow slog of the dungeon itself, and then having so many phases, each of which needs learning, and any mistake results in end of game.

There are so many individual small problems with Nest (event) + The Nest, that just each thing compounded on the next makes it just completely unappealing to the majority, and ultimately it’s a waste of good ideas & potential fun content.

#122

I want to tackle only one part.

Dungeons of “extreme” difficulty sadly will never have a loot table.

Loot is one of the hardest things to choose when making these dungeon if the devs make the loot too little then no one wants to run it. If it’s decent loot (as it currently is) then no one wants to run it.
If it’s slightly better then decent loot then trains will do it all day mass looting and as such the dungeon will never be “hard”

#123

#It’s not too hard to dodge the shots.
#Learn confuse controls or dodge confuse.

#124

what deer was that?

#125

any particular reason it can’t be both? :thinking:

I won’t deny the nest has problems, but we don’t need to be adding more in an attempt to “fix” them

…I’m sorry, are we talking about the same marble colossus? the one I know has this phase that lasts an entire two minutes where everyone huddles in the corner trying to minimize damage to the point where priests can make the group facetank everything else. if that’s not “crazy” I don’t know what is anymore, but whatever it is it’s not in the nest.

do the pauses of absolutely no attacks in between literally every phase not count or something?

and that retort always follows, no exception. all I wanted to point out was that herpyderryo said that the nest should be soloable and it technically is already if you have enough patience.

#127

I think expanding the nest boss room for right now in a hotfix could be a bandaid patch

#128

any particular reason youre not just saying that so that it seems like you have a point :thinking:

im not implying that it needs to be fixed, but what i am saying is that the boss fight is poorly designed. also, what do you mean by adding more? more what? more problems to fix the problem? never heard of that before…

im not talking about that part, thats literally the one part of the boss fight i wasnt thinking about when i said that. of course the rage phase is a mess. it shouldnt even exist in the first place. and yes, there is something quite similar to that in the nest, but instead of the marble pillar shots instakilling anyone who touches them, the red shot make you walk into more red shots, killer honey, or the boss.

First of all, these “pauses” are hardly 3 seconds each. i dont think that gives you enough time to organize, compared to the marble colossus’ fight where these phases give you time to move around any consumables in your inventory and such.

and it should. why should we even believe this in the first place when there is no proof.

just because you can do something doesnt mean it’s worth doing. somehow the nest manages to be inherently extremely risky yet it boggles the mind how tedious it is.

#129

I could do the dungeon if only other people were willing to do it with me.

#130

Not from my experience.

@Samcw Judging from my luck, I’d say it’s completely plausible.

Hm, nothing’s impossible, but having a messy, unpredictable spray does complicate matters. Oh, and the fact that the boss runs at you with the confuse shots spraying all around from her.

From my guildie’s and friend’s experience. And by droprates, I wasn’t talking solely about the whites.

Anyways, the only way you’re ever going to use teleportation in the Nest is to teleport out of danger. In a normal Nest, there is no chest at the end.

+20% size is called for, I think. Either that, or a two tile wall on each side to hide behind, like in Ice Cave.

Goddamn it, my luck is on the shitty side. The average norm for the ice tomb event is a white every 10, even in a crowded pub. I’m pretty sure I’ve done at LEAST 20. Not to mention during the UDL I spent every waking moment grinding out UDLS, and most of my udls had <5 people in it. Still didn’t get an st from the chest.

[quote=“Xaklor, post:115, topic:16272”]
half the hp of the avatar (which is a lot)
[/quote]No shit sherlock

Anyways, you do pose a valid argument, and there are some flaws in my own. But something has to be done about the risk:reward ratio in the Nest. How about the hallway doesn’t flood during the boss fight so you could back out? Just like in the Parasite Den. This makes it so that in a pinch, you can get out of the boss room. But that won’t make it easy, either.
What Nevov said ,basically.