Why is Nest so unpopular?

#21

The boss is scary as Hell and impossible to learn. What I mean by the latter is every boss before it you could learn relatively safely. Oryx is a hard battle for a new player, but is easy to participate in from a distance: don’t get in too close, get in shots when you can. As you learn his patterns and behaviours you discover more and more opportunities to do damage, and eventually get SB pretty reliably.

Oryx 2 is an even harder battle, but the same applies. Get to the boss, loiter around the edge, learn his patterns. Use a Assassin or Sorcerer and you can get in some damage if he is not steamrollered. Eventually you learn how to do damage with any class. Tomb bosses are similar.

Other bosses you can do with a large enough group. Shatters, Red Dragon, Ivory Wyvern can all be done easily with enough people. Again this lets you learn their patterns for when there are fewer people.

But the nest there is no easy way to learn the battle. You can’t just sit in a corner and watch, helping if you can but mostly taking it in. It has no safe corners or edges. You can’t easily hide in a large crowd for safety, as for the Red Dragon or Shatters bosses, as you need to be constantly moving – you still need to know the patterns and shots. You can’t wait and see what other players do/where they go, as if you are a moment behind the other players you will get shot.

I’ve been in a fair few nests. I’ve gotten to the boss twice, but nexused almost immediately both times as I did not know what I was doing and was being pummelled by shots and status effects which would have soon killed me. Most times I don’t even make it that far, nexusing or dying earlier. But that I understand and am getting better at – the enemies you run into on the way are hard but understandable. I just don’t see how I will ever get to grips with the boss though.

#22

I personally don’t find a rewarding enough and the red shotgun with three shots on the way where he’s doing little circles in the middle of a shooting four lines of shots is a killer I choose to avoid

#23

Very well said I think you hit the nail on a couple of concerns there however I do think the game should have some dungeons that require or at least heavily encourage proper coordination it definitely shouldn’t be every dungeon that gets released from here on and it hasn’t been every dungeon since that gets been at the plate we got the sewers, Mountain Temple and there’s sure to be more I personally think we should have all types the dungeons that not any coordination, the dungeons that have a way to use proper coronation like tomb that you can still diss go in guns a-blazin on and the dungeons that Ful lout require coronation.

That being said a focus on the second type of dungeon is probably the smartest route to go

#24

Variations are nice, but the most pressing problem I see is that so many realms are stuck at the nest event.

#25

Absolutely agreed. I haven’t been through a Nest, but it suffers greatly from what you describe from what I’ve seen. Same for Deadwater Docks, and to a lesser extent Shaitan, Ivory Wyvern, Bella, Encore, and the Ice Tomb.

I think the “old” designs did not intend to give space for spectators to acclimate themselves to the fight, but instead for space for players to fall back and recover in the era before pets. That it helped players ease into battle was no more than a positive side-effect. Thinking of it this way, the design difference from pre and post pet eras is pretty clear.

#28

Public endgame content is OP

#29

Do you guys think the nest is incredibly difficult compared to its other epic dungeon counterparts? I honestly think it’s the scariest/most difficult dungeon in the game by far. Imo ddocks, cdepths,and laby aren’t anything compared to the nest. Like not even close. Shouldn’t all epic dungeons be about the same difficulty wise? So why did they make the nest so insanely hard? Did deca go a bit overboard? Need to hear some other opinions on this.

#30

Well, if you consider the Hive, the Nest’s early-game counterpart, you can probably see that it is a lot harder than say, Pirate Cave/Forest Maze/Spider Den. This might be a reason the Nest is again harder than the other Epic Dungeons.

#31

Yeah, I guess I didn’t think of that. I kinda rush through hives so I always forget they can kinda pose a threat to unmaxed players. I still think they went full on autism on this dungeon😅

#32

Nest dungeon is far too hard. A 90+ pet should be a choice/luxury to make the game easier, not be a requirement to even finish something.

Bee Minions in the main dungeon - scrap their invulnerable phases and knock down their HP. It just makes the thing too boring and slow. Same as they did with the Puppet Theatre minion HP nerf recently, which changed clearing it from a boring crawl to a faster experience (= more fun). Not entirely the same situation because rushing is a possibility in there, but hopefully players can see what I mean about the HP nerf by comparing before and after in Pupps.

KQ Boss - would be massive improvement if it has some mechanic like in Crawling Depths, where if players Yolo into it they get the current fight as a reward/punishment for their stupidity, but a clever group has the choice to tame the boss by doing something organised.

Examples could be (first things I thought of, not saying these are actual good ideas):
-kill all the small nests in the dungeon halves the number of bullets you’ll get spammed at you in all the boss’s phases.
-kill the T-room and you get a tamer final rage phase
-etc

The recent Nest chest event will have given a lot of players chance to at least get some experience and see the thing get completed, if they found a key-opened one with a massive group of players to steamroll the thing, but that’s hardly the way that the game should be played, is it? If the only viable way to do a dungeon is to get 75+ ppl in?

This is also my Nests experiences in a nutshell. Frustrating and the direct cause of why I don’t bother joining them since I know that is how it’s gonna end then why waste 20 mins getting there to see that happen for the 15th (20th, 30th) straight time.

#33

I’ve been through about 10 nests, all of them public, and I can only agree with most of the points here. You pretty much run in a circle, try to get hit as little as possible and hope to god there are enough priests and pallys healing you while you get slammed on with sb damage and debuffs.

That’s mostly the one thing all the “newer” (as in, released after pets) dungeons have in common: Debuffs on mass. Because while pets might heal you and give you the possibility to spam your ability (on higher mheal levels), they don’t help you AT ALL against debuffs.

Oh your pet can heal? Good luck when you’re sick 90% of the time (sewers). Good luck when you get paralyzed on top of a radial shotgun type enemy (nest). Good luck when you get nearly perma paralyzed by two archers (temple). Oh you’re a knight, the goddamn tankiest class in the game? Good luck when you get guaranteed armor broken (also nest) and get spammed with 10 million shots afterwards.

It’s just a lazy way to make players with OP pets just as easy to die as ones with weaker pets. Which is, in theory, a good idea, it makes it less P2W. But that just means that players without amazing pets will not even stand a chance in surviving these dungeons, let alone the boss.

#34

I think the difficulty is fine and it is a relatively fair dungeon, and apparently was soloed by unibro petless on all 14 classes. It just requires MUCH more dodging than any other dungeon in the game, a skill that most players haven’t mastered. A strong leveled pet will not help much without dodging; I have multiple guildies who have divines yet struggle with nest due to the pet stasis. If you get hit every 5 seconds or less, your pet is basically useless.

Anyways, the nest was designed to be a very difficult dungeon, and I like it. The loot is decent, with life drops and awesome UTs, and the dungeon takes under 15 minutes with a group of 8-10 good people.

I do think that the killer bee event needs to be nerfed or made a non requirement. Most of the rotmg playerbase isn’t ready to survive the Nest, and for that reason it’s illogical to make the event bosses that drop the super hard dungeons a requirement to close a realm for oryx, a boss which has about the power of a single beehemoth. Endgame content should be endgame, and I feel like the nest is good and about as fair as shatters is.

Remember, shatters is over 3 years old. When it was first released, it was also a massive clusterfuck and groups would rarely get past 1st or 2nd. Give it some time, Nests are already getting better. One big issue with public nests is that people don’t play priest even though the sb threshold is insanely low on the boss; 1 priest with a maxed rare pet does as much good as a maxed divine for the whole group IMO.

Also, I like the moves by deca to neutralize pets. Now, in order to survive dungeons like the nest, you need a certain amount of skill, and cannot just P2W your way to a lvl 100 pet and survive like the shatters in a way.

#36

One tip: BRING A PRIEST. With 2 or 3 priests in a group, it greatly increases your chance of finishing the dungeon - I’ve seen this myself. With no healing, everyone basically nexuses, but with priests, people stay.

You have more survivability as a priest, you can still easily hit sb, and you help others finish the dungeon. It’s a win-win.

#37

Is there any video of him doing it?

#38

No, it was on testing I believe. Given Unibro’s skill though and the fact that he made the dungeon and knows everything about it, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Just consider this, when the first shatters was soloed, everyone thought it was super impressive and was a near-impossible feat, even though dustbite had a maxed divine. People thought you NEEDED a max divine to solo shats. Now look: we have BTEL with a sub 16 min shatters solo, faster than most guilds and publics, and unibro with a 25 min PETLESS solo, something that was clearly thought impossible when it was first released.

My perspective: When nest first came out, my guildies would die en masses as they didn’t know the bullet patterns, me included. After the nest event, we now can do a 10 man nest and get around 8 to come out, with only a death every few nests, because we’ve learned the bullet patterns. In shatters, the same thing applies; if you don’t know how to deal with adepts and stone mages, like safespotting the stones, you’re gonna have trouble/danger, but if you do know, it becomes trivial with a coordinated group. Nest is just focused more on dodging and less on tanking compared to shatters and is much newer. Both are equally punishing; get confused into boss you die, and get confused into a group of adepts or boss and you die also. Think of 2nd boss rage phase; if that was made mandatory, people would complain so much about it.

#39

That’s one thing I’m okay with it being required quest, unlike the Oryx Horde which was near impossible to solo, and would block the realm for hours, the Bee Nest event is relatively easy, certainly easier than the optional LH event, and I think we’ll see it just dying as players come to realise 2 or 3 maxed ppl can take it down without much trouble… unless all are trying to be ppe lel 0/8 knights. I’m finding it’s nothing much tougher than Rock Dragon is to solo, though takes about 4x times longer due to the 4 phases, and doesn’t have RDragon’s annoying instarip bats equivalents.

#40

I think they should nerf the event that drops the nest as well. No one ever wants to do it because it’s tedious and pretty scary. Usually ppl finally fight it 30-40 minutes after it spawns, which is stupid if you think anout how other events get steamrolled. (Lotll, ava, herm for example.

#41

Yeah definitely we can use some buffs to Lotll/hermi, 20 seconds events are not deserving of the name event. Ava seems about okay now? Long enough to call guild to, but not so long you’re there feeling you’re wasting time.

#42

I honestly think lotll should be immune to stun, and paralyze. Give it 50% more hp, and increase prot crystal hp by 100%. Herm should get a damage buff, and a 100% hp buff with invulnerability phases after it hits a certain amount of hp like the cube god. Ava eye phase should be buffed by a lot, but thats about it. Just a ramble but I mean cmon lol

#43

It’s relatively easy for a few maxed players, but even with 3 maxed chars it takes around 5 minutes. Since clearing a realm to oryx shouldn’t be something that is too difficult, I feel like it should be made non required. The event is fair, but takes too long for a solo or small group of unmaxed chars to clear a realm, which is what many F2P players must do for small event dungeons.

The main problem with the event, like the sentry, is the lack of people doing it because they’re afraid of the Nest since they can’t survive it to get loot. When sentry and nest event have 10+ maxed chars on it, they die within 2 minutes, but people don’t usually do them. Avatar takes a while with a small group, but since it drops shatters which everyone loves, 30 people show up and steamroll it. Sentry could be steamrolled just as fast with a group of 30 and I’ve seen it done, but no one does it because there’s no incentive of loot in the dungeon after, since Lost Halls that drop in realms never get completed.