Defense Rings Suck

#1

Defense rings (tiered) are kinda bad. The only thing that is worse is a VIT ring. I know its unnecessary since everyone pretty much agrees that HP is better than DEF but i thought it’d be fun to do some simple mathematics around it.

In order to calculate the effectiveness of, lets say, a UBHP vs a UBDEF, lets use this equation.

N = Dn

Let N be net HP, D is damage prevented and n be number of hits. To input the rings this means:

UBDEF: N = 9n

UBHP: N = 180 (in this case n = 1 since a UBHP will always prevent 180 damage.)

That essentially means you need to be hit 20 times with the UBDEF ring just to net gain the same amount of HP as the UBHP. Okay but what if your HP is below the +180 a UBHP gives you? pretty useless if you are always below that margin, however you need to take into account the situation that got you into that in the first place. for this we’ll use the proportions of the Player’s health as i feel it is a better representation of how to look at this argument.

Let’s take a knights base max HP of 770, with 0 defense and faced with an attack, lets call it white flame, that does 280 damage. lets create an equation that can see how much percentage each ring can give you in terms of this knight’s health and compare it to the damage. It will incorporate the last equation.

UBDEF = (9n/770) x 100 = 1.16n%

UBHP = (180/770) x 100 = 23.4%

So a UBHP will give you 123.4% HP while the UBDEF will give you 100% + 1.16n% but in this case n would be 1 since the attack is a single white flame so essentially it gives you only a +1.16% in HP. But maybe we’re being too harsh on the UBDEF so lets split up that 280 damage into 28 pellets of 10 damage.

UBDEF = 1.16(28) = 32.48%

UBHP = (180/770) x 100 = 23.4%

In this case, with the UBDEF you gain a +32.48% in HP. Seems like a pretty good improvement however if we consider proportions in relation to the attack its not so impressive.

UBDEF = 280/(770(1.3248)) = 27.4%

UBHP = 280/(770(1.234)) = 29.5%

We can see that there is only a 2.1% difference in proportion. So after the attack you’ll be left with 72.6% of your “HP” with a UBDEF while having a 70.5% with a UBHP. However its worth noting that this is in proportions of their respective hypothetical HP buff, in reality there is about a 10% difference in HP (UBDEF: 752HP vs UBHP: 670HP out of 770HP) after the attack but regardless puts into perspective that the UBDEF will only be a little bit more effective even in a generous situation which is unlikely with late game enemies and bosses dishing out hundreds of damage at a time.

(If you’re wondering about a pyra, it is +(13 + 0.5n)% with a net HP of 100 + 4n meaning you’ll have to get hit at least 20 times to cut even with a UBHP, same as the UBDEF oddly enough.)

However if the nature of defense rings is to net HP by taking damage, than it ultimately makes it less efficient than any HP ring. The only way i can see having more defense as better is if it is an absurd amount of it (like the knight or a jugg) but since a UBDEF ring provides such an underwhelming amount HP rings are ultimately superior, paramount, exalted or even unbound.

TL:DR - Defense Rings Suck. Use (net HP) = (DEF) x (Amount of Attacks)

#2

have both UBHP and UBDEF, swap rings when HP goes below the extra 180 HP, and switch back when able to heal over your default HP

#3

Fair enough, but doesn’t seem to be worth the effort tho especially considering pets.

#4

:eyes:

but yeah def is pretty low when compared to hp, a nice example of it is that sup hp ring (t3) is better than ubdef.
And a much more simple way to calculate def vs hp is basically: 1 def = 10 hp :d

#5

Great work. Might as well have just reposted your stuff lol. Though i think that hp and defense are more interchangeable than meets the eye. e.g. 180HP = 180DEF if we’re talking about just one attack. And if we’re talking about multiple attacks, we just have to take the HP bonus divided by the total attacks to gain the DEF conversion or just my equation rearranged.

N = Dn >>> D = N/n

#6

IC/OoC is going to ruin all of you HP fetishists

#7

Def and Vit, were once core stats of the game. And then Kabam sundered the game balance forever with pet abilities.

#8
#9

It will just ruin those who tank shots and rely on pet healing. HP vs Def will be a viable argument again.

#10

IC/OoC is thus going to ruin HP fetishists

#12

best video for this:

old but good video

#13

Wearing a greater ring of defense is the classic mark of an Alpha male.

You wouldn’t understand.

#14

i see what you did there

#15

Some puns are just indefensible.

#16

I remember when I was a blue star, I always thought having more defense was better than hp.

#17

Even now I’m already an anti-HP fetishist
Breastplate overrated

That being said I think it might also have to do with halls addicts. HP is unquestionably better in Void imo and probably better for most of halls

#18

the only way i can see defense rings ever being viable in the future is if they are able to ignore the minimum damage cap (15% of an attacks original damage i think). this would have to be exclusive to the rings so items like prot/juggernaut are not immediately extremely overpowered, but even then i think the case could be made that even just the def rings having that ability could be op

#19

Actually def rings have 1 instance where they are more viable. Its when you are being hit with multiple shots at close to the 15% dmg cap. Best example that comes to mind would be in places like god lands or skull shrine/cube god. On a samuri you would take about 20 damage a shot which can stack quickly, however with ubdef it takes it down to 11 damage which a max legendary pet can actually keep up with. If your within 2-3 damage of the cap def ring is pointless and if your 25-30+ damage of cap it is also pointless. Its for those rare occasions when you have low-mid damage with a lot of projectiles.

The other time its useful is when your on a healing class because it reduces the rate at which you need to heal as well as gives your a longer window to heal. Also a lot of items now double defense so ubdef is now 18+ def ring. Not that you really need it when your armored but you find your self in that damage range explained above more frequently.

#20

you are correct the only instance where it would be better is if you have a good 8/8 character and you have a bad pet then you might consider using def because you have to consider how much health your pet would be able to heal before the next shot comes in.

#21

I agree that a defense ring will be useful in those rare cases but it only means that an HP ring is more a universal. Even if the defense ring is more effective in an instance of a barrage of attacks, a HP ring won’t do a terrible job at it either but if it was the other way around where you take a few attacks with big damage, you’ll not only find that the HP ring will be more useful but also the defense ring won’t help much at all.