How to re-work ninja properly

#10

Ninja does seem a bit fragile, but, honestly, does he really need more defense? The ninja has several factors going for him already.

  1. High mobility - he isn’t forced to eat shots, but, even if he is, 42 defense (max def + hydra) will suffice for it
  2. Piercing - good crowd control and targetting. This targetting is enhanced with his shuriken, which allows him to destroy high-priority enemies easily. With dangerous enemies dead, he won’t need as much defense to survive.
  3. The katana’s range - most people don’t understand just how much space is in 4 tiles. Playing melee classes allows us to get desensitized towards damage, so we often play at ~2 tiles, skewing our vision of the ranges of melee weapons and katanas.

All in all, the ninja is a solid class which doesn’t need to be more tanky. If you compare him to a warrior without accounting for all aspects, you’re just making a flawed argument that is equivalent to saying that a priest sucks in comparison to a paladin because it doesn’t give a damaging boost.

#11

No Doku
No Doku.jpg1066x1192 241 KB

In all seriousness, I get where you’re coming from.
Tons of people find Ninja horrid to play, me excluded.

The best way to give Ninja buff would be to change its max HP from 720 to 740 or 750. It’ll make you a bit tankier, but not too tanky.
If anything, Ninja’s weapons are fine.
Aside from the fact that some people still think that Ninja - Doku = Bad. Stop

#12

well doku is just a swapout if u cant aim properly with masamune. just gets beaten by masamune in 30 def or so.

#13

Ninja is a class made for high mobility and dodging. If you say it’s bad then you’re not playing him right. He’s made to hit and run. His Katana and Shuriken both do insane damage and his speedy gets him in and out of dangerous situations.

#14

Keep ninja the way it is

Its a perfectly balanced class. It sacrifices defense for speed and dexterity, and a huge att pool.

I think its ok the way it is. Some love it, some hate it

#15

If you want to pierce then play bow class

If you want DPS go play warrior

If you want speed or rushing capability go play trix or rogue

Ninja good point?

High mobility? Warrior have that

High DPS? Warrior have that

Piercing? Bow class can pull that off more safely

Ninja isn’t bad for me

It just some class out there can pull out the same amount (or more) of work but more easier

#16

Can you use good grammar please?

also, ninja is fine. I feel the people making these threads need to play ninja more. You can’t just say “Ninja is hard, buff ninja.” You have to get a feel for it.

#17

fine :confused:

i dont speak english too often

#18

Using your logic, one can deduct that every class in this game is bad. Take the wizard, for example:

You want DPS? Go play warrior, he does it more consistently.
You want range? Go play sorcerer, he has more range and can pierce.

Or let’s take the warrior:

You want DPS? Go play wizard, he does it more safely.
You want to rush? Go play trickster, rogue, or knight.
You want high mobility? Go play ninja
You want high defense? Go play knight.

Or let’s take the archer:

You want piercing? Sorcerer can do it more safely.
What about damage? Wizard and warrior can do that better.

If you want to provide information that actually tells you whether or not a class is bad, try to find a class that utterly outperforms the other class. RotMG classes are built in such a way that each one fills one or more niches, so you can always find a way to make a class seem “weak.” Yes, some classes can pull the same amount in certain areas, but they fail in other areas where the ninja is an expert. Bow classes can’t rush tombs as effectively as ninjas. High range classes can’t do abysses as well as ninjas. Low range classes can’t do o2 as effectively as ninjas.

The ninja is a very versatile class. He excels in mainly one area (rushing), is strong in other areas (dps and crowd control), and is average everywhere else. Pulling together random classes and specifying how they function better in certain scenarios is a flawed way to say a class is weak.

#19

every classes has its advantage and disadvantage

#20

I think a very fitting buff would be to increase the max vitality of the class, as well as possibly adding vitality bonuses to untiered katanas. Eventually this would be enough to the point where it would have high sustainability more appropriate for a melee class but it would only be feasible if you are not constantly getting hit. This adds more to the theme of the class in terms of being rewarded for going undetected/dodging attacks well.

Also in response to what Desotroya said about the class dynamics I think that the ninja is more versatile than the knight, who is useful for early and midgame dungeons but not much else. The flaw in the ninja is that it is too spread out and ends up being generally weaker than other classes who are more tied down to a specific set of skills. A buff like the one I described above would help the ninja be more consistent in a certain area like long boss fights or being able to deal damage and recover quickly. There are other suggested changes to the class that are not just related to stats but this is just my take on the subject.

#21

Having ran a Ninja mundane has shown me the light, and the advantages, with the class. Does he really need more defense? Maybe the ability usage is a bit of a faff sometimes (not a fan of holding for speedy and using a star every time I release the key). Other than that, katana is quite an underestimated weapon, especially on Ninja. How much of a difference do you suggest? If you want a Ninja with defense, then you may as well peddle the idea that he should wear heavy armor instead of leather, and even then I believe it should incur a penalty to DEX to balance it. As I’ve said in my own thread about a katana wielding armor class, the loss of the armor’s DEX bonus is not enough of a balance because I believe most people would rather have 8 more DEF than 5 more DEX.

You would probably not believe that Ninja is far more viable now that katana range was buffed from 4.2 to 4.75 tiles. It used to be that Doku was far and away the best katana to use. That’s not really so these days. Sure, I’d definitely take a Doku over any tiered katana, but there’s a plus to other katana as well. Masa is only a downgrade from Doku in range, and not even by half a tile. Even if they nerfed Doku more I’d still use it over a tiered katana; its sword counterpart would be the A.S.S, in a way.

I agree wholeheartedly with this idea. Definitely make the HP of the katana class start at 180, average at 655, then cap at 750.

As for a Ninja rework, he doesn’t need one. The class was designed from the outset to be a glass cannon; his equipment emphasizes DPS, speed, and skillful dodging. This is a similar concept to Wizard, a class that while very competitive in DPS against Ninja, his weapon doesn’t pierce, nor does he benefit from slightly better armor. I actually like the idea of classes that do high DPS but have little ability to tank.

If anything should be changed at all, along with the HP buff, I believe the class should have his ATT, DEX, and WIS cap at 75 instead of 70, but even then that’s not absolutely critical. It’d only be a welcomed minor buff to an already effective class. Also because then if Deca decided the new class should also be a katana class but wear armor, then they could give it 75 ATT but 55 DEX. That’s just me being a bit retentive.

#22

Are you serious.

Ninja is already amazing.

You have it imbedded into your mind that ninja is bad.

#23

then why almost to noone play it? i mean main it

#24

How can you say almost no one plays it?
Do you have the demographics for how many ppl play ninja?

#25

The ninja is difficult to use, especially when we’re dealing with classes with forgiving, easy kits (almost every class in this game). Just because something is hard to use doesn’t mean its trash.

@PLEBJESUS if we consider realmeye fame averages as an indicator of how “lively” a class is, the ninja is only better than trickster and mystic.

#26

I don’t understand why there has been people saying Ninja needs reworking lately. It makes no sense. Ninja is great the way it is now.

#27

Stop trying to rework ninja.

If you can’t play ninja how it is right now, you’re probably bad at the game.

#28

How dare you assume my skill?

I don’t really care much about ninja

But how dare you say that i’m bad at the game?

Nah, just kidding lol

#29

that’s a fallacy.

nobody in america supported entering ww2 until pearl harbor. everyone agreed on a policy of non-action. did that make it right for them to wait until millions had already died before entering?