If duping were to be completely eliminated, would you want UT trading?

#54

actually it’s ick, ook

#55

I cook

#56

What? It definitely won’t help new players.

  1. It cuts down all players, old and new alike. Every pet will suffer decreased regen. Everyone has to dodge more. Noobs would probably be the worst at dodging and will suffer the most.

  2. Just like Kiddforce said, the goal is to have players die more. Overall, this hurts new players the most. The people who have 120 vaults open can easily stockpile resources. If you have only 1 vault, you’re forced to carry a lot of stuff you’d rather not die with and, when you eventually do die, it hurts more. I always have struggled with vault space and I hate carrying these extra items on characters. In addition, I have wizards specifically for farming pots quickly and efficiently in glands. Noobs don’t have the luxury of multiple characters to help with the grind.

  3. We have heard the developers trying to create dungeon scaling where the ideal number of players is in the 20-30 range. This type of scaling promotes a selective environment as opposed to an inclusive environment. This hurts newer players. If it is determined that the most efficient way to run higher level dungeons (let’s say halls) is in 30 man groups, you best believe a bunch of discords (probably woland) are going to take 30 capable 8/8s. This means there will be more players willing to come than they need and players with lower pets and lower gear will be left out. We’ve all seen the discord messages for a “level 85 mheal priest”. Why would you expect it to get better?

The noobs will most likely tag along in a discord that fills the dungeon to 65 anyway, and the scaling will penalize those groups specifically (because Deca doesn’t like full dungeons for some reason).

I genuinely don’t see what you’re saying here.

It’s very simple. You are one of the testers. The testers want the game to be harder. The testers have stated that these terrible changes will make the game harder. A harder game is harder on noobs.

There’s basically no area where noobs come out on top.

UT trading would be a mechanic that helps noobs.

I agree with this completely. Like I said before, having to grind from the ground up is one of the worst parts of the game.

To illustrate this better, let’s flip the issue completely. Let’s say you can’t trade anything. What would happen to the realm youtubers like Sebchoof? I know for a fact he wouldn’t be able to put out as much content, because making replacement characters would become significantly harder. I don’t think anyone wants to watch him grind 30 Limon to max his dex. We want to see him soloing o3 and performing other cool feats.

Nobody likes grinding. I am certain everyone here would take a free deca ring if they were offered one.

#57

I think you underestimate the impact of this for experienced players. Yeah, new players might not know the patterns as well as experienced players, but they also don’t have a pet healing for 60+ hp every second. Remove that 60 hp per second, and suddenly the experienced player is on much closer footing with the new player. Now both new and old will have to dodge, instead of the new player struggling to dodge while the experienced player just tanks shot after shot becaues he knows his pet will heal him back to full. Honestly IC/OoC should be beneficial to a new player because if they step out of the fight for a few seconds they can get back up to full health and right back into it.

I remember very clearly being a blue star working my way through a UDL. I would take on a single room, then literally sit in a corner for 45 seconds to heal up enough to move on to the next room. Reducing those 45 seconds to 10 seconds is massive.

New players already die plenty often. I think the goal is to have players die more who currently only die once in a blue moon. Because a new player doesn’t have access to a strong pet anyway, as said before, it will not impact them as much.

Then why are NPEs/PPEs so popular? This is the part of the game that is most interesting to play and most interesting to watch for most people. If you disagree that is fine, but to say that it is objectively one of the worst parts of the game doesn’t really make sense. Almost everyone ends up going toward some sort of challenging mode like that once they get tired of endless key rushing.

Strongly disagree.

I do agree with this, but I don’t think it is any sort of proof toward people not liking grinding. The grind makes the reward much more satisfying. Sure, I would take a deca ring if I were offered one. But if I could just make my choice of equipment every time I made a new character and start with it 8/8 with all the UTs I could ever want? I would probably drop the game completely after a couple weeks.

This game is built around the grind, and is built around character death. I think that the UT exchange system is better than UT trading for that reason, and I think implementing a new combat system that will be more challenging to veteran players while not being oppressive to new players is exactly what the game needs, and I am impressed with Deca’s resolution to continue to pursue something along those lines even with backlash from many community members. Yeah, it will be a bummer to see so many of my characters die, as I am sure they will, but I look forward to the additional challenge it will bring and I especially look forward to seeing where Deca takes the game next.

#58

correct me if i’m wrong but i think that’s the point

the way you say that also makes it sound like right now, dodging is not necessary. this is exactly what ic/ooc is supposed to change. as of now, pets as broken to the point where players can just stand in one spot while their pets can heal off all the damage.
besides, new players(ones with and without pets) will learn to dodge more, so i don’t think it will affect them as much as you make it out to be

#59

While both groups suffer a regen nerf from their pets, this is literally a direct buff to vit and wis alike. Relatively, newer players rely more on their vit and wis for regen and less on pets; giving them a conditional 100% increase is a straight buff to petless players.
High-end players will have their pet neutered greatly, which cuts deeper into their regen relative to newer players, slightly bridging the gap between the two.

While the goal is indeed to have players in general die more, the nerf to pets specifically is tailored to hinder endgame players more.
And while they can indeed build back up faster than other players by stockpiling items, they currently barely need to use said items because they just…rarely ever die.

Obviously, having more items than you can carry is always a bad thing, and despite the amount of free vaults Deca has given away, I agree that it’s very easy to amass enough valuable items to fill them with. With UT exchange, this should help in letting players choose “hm, this item is rare, but I’m not going to use it, so I might as well exchange it for progress towards this item that I do want!”.

Alternatively, with higher drop rates thanks to more death, items become less of a “store in your vault and take out only when you’re maxed and decked out and absolutely sure you won’t die” and moreso “put it on a character you think can make use of it”.

Not the best example, but the point is that, with lower rarity on items, it becomes less arduous of a task to have to choose between two items for vault space.

This is a very tricky type of thing to account for, precisely because of the mix of “newer” and “older” players.
A group consisting of a mixed bag of fresh 0/8s with highlands gear, 2/8s with maybe a few high tier items, and those Epic Dream PPE Knight Full Void Set™ people will have their DPS more or less balanced out according to the current scaling (with that latter group making up for the former group’s lackluster DPS).

However, in a group consisting solely of experienced veterans, the scaling starts to fall behind. There’s no players to “make up for”, creating a ball of DPS that just obliterates content at such a rapid pace that lower drop rates are the only thing keeping them in check.

Finding a solution that makes the latter less oppressive while keeping the former at least somewhat viable without discouraging newer players is just really hard - but IC/OoC’s DPS-buff nerfs do help.
In the former group, they might have only a few pallies and warriors who probably aren’t able to permanently buff their teammates, while the latter definitely can.
By decreasing the effectiveness of their buffs, their DPS comes much closer to eachother, while (hopefully) still being a fair distance apart (since that’s also a problem - if a mixed group is just as efficient as an experienced group, why bother coming together like that?)

There’s just so many aspects that I don’t think there’s a true catch-all solution that satisfies both parties, not to even start on the very core of the game.

One final note:

Debatable, if said noobs can’t even acquire the asked-for price. Not entirely untrue, for sure - “lower-end” players may eventually scrape together enough to buy a UT, but otherwise, I can’t really see it solving the struggle of the newest of new players.

The General Chat Thread
#60

It is true that noobs will struggle to buy items at the start. However, lots of older players are generous in nature. I could see this as a positive for guilds where members share loot and for seasoned players that have more items than they can hold onto.

In addition, noobs could sell UTs items that they obtain, including higher feedpower items like candy coated armor.

For instance, last week I obtained an orb of conflict. I personally don’t think it’s very good, but I could trade it for the new oryx ut orb.

I wanted to respond more to the other posts made by Lazer and Fury, but it will go too far off topic.

#61

New players (very new) have pets that heal like 7 hp every 2-3 seconds, they aren’t gonna suffer. Even with a max rare most bosses can out dps the healing, so I have to back out to heal anyways, IC/OoC won’t effect me backing out to heal in the slightest. So not only does this not effect new players. It barely effects mid-tier players. This is really only going to have a meaningful effect on players with Legendary or Divine pets, and that effect is going to, without a doubt, be a step in the right direction.

#62

Sounds like a solid nerf to PPEs and makes trading more incentivised

#63

Makes PPEs impressive again

#64

I don’t have much to say except ic/ooc, whatever that may be, is not at all part of what I was talking about… I also agree with the dude above that that isn’t a solution for new player retention and balance at all, not related topic…

Edit: I also don’t know why you quoted me on that, given the context of the rest of my post, that was the most generic sentence to quote me on.

Edit 2: Also because it came up somewhere in this thread, UT trading is something that 100% helps new players. It’s crazy to argue otherwise.

A simple example is a new player gets a quiver of thunder randomly, or any other realm white bag, maybe even really lucky and gets a few shots in a cube god for a CDirk. They can then trade that for upwards of 100 + def pots, through trading decas and gls, and they can use that for lots of lower tier gear and pots to max up. The Quiver of Thunder, CDirk, or other white is of much much less use to a new player than a maxed experienced player, who can use it on the bosses they should, safely, without dying with it. New players just die with this gear, or vault it forever… It’s just obviously helpful to newer players to be able to trade UTs.

#65

My thoughts exactly. We’ve all seen noobs get lucky with valuable items. Rather than die with them, they could sell them to build up their characters.

#66

That’s assuming they don’t get scammed by the more experienced players, which is extremely likely to be what’s gonna happen instead.

#67

I mean that happens everywhere in life and all other games with trading, that’s not rotmg exclusive. Lol it’s better to learn those types of life lessons to avoid getting scammed in a game than real life. As someone who was a new player once while all items were traded, I can say I never got really scammed any more than when I’ve recently started playing again in some high value trades anyhow. That’s all part of gaining experience.

Edit: Also keep in mind some UT’s are low value anyhow, and opening trading to those UT’s is also helpful to new players (https://www.realmeye.com/wiki/chasuble-of-holy-light as example, most players would just give these out to newer players as a decent robe upgrade)

#68

I think you should’ve checked out what it all entails.
What I don’t understand is how a doubling of regen can’t be seen as a buff to newer players. The worst thing it brings - so far - is a reduction in the damage that buffed groups bring…which is compensated for by a reduction in enemies’ max HP.

#69

Thanks, actually I hadn’t read that or seen it yet. I didn’t realize they had provided more details. In the way they’ve described it, it doesn’t sound bad to me actually, and I do see how it should be helpful to new players if it is well implemented. It’s a big change though so we’ll see how it goes. I didn’t read through all the way, and maybe they highlight this, but there has been a ton of content designed based on the overpowered large groups with pets, and I think that content needs a heavy adjustment. But I feel this could be very good for the game, taking more emphasis off steamrolling and putting more into dodging bullets. I really don’t like situations of just standing and tanking shots, and ultimately agree they shouldn’t be in a bullet hell permadeath game.

Anyhow regardless, it’s a little off topic in this thread though I suppose, and still just to stay on topic, I still do support UT trading regardless of what the ic/ooc brings to the game.

#70

I can see I’m not going to change your mind on this, but you’re definitely still wrong.

Like it or not, the lost halls “meatball” has always been a haven for noobs and proves exactly why you are wrong. I’m not debating whether the halls meatball was a good thing or the game or not, but it definitely was a bastion of safety.

In the lost halls meatball, players with divine pets would spam heals, drop mseals, and provide other buffs including increased HP.

You forget that high level pets benefit not only that player, but also the people around them.

You keep trying to nerf pets, which will lower the amount of constant healing. Priest can’t spam puris as much.

You also wanted to nerf armored, which will lower the meatball’s defense.

There is no way these nerfs will improve survivability.

Unless you’re trying to tell me killing Limon 5 seconds faster is somehow going to help noobs.

Maybe it will help the noobs complete the simplest of dungeons, but overall these changes will undoubtedly make the game more tedious for all players.

Unless Deca is willing to abandon the grindy nature of the game and really buff up some of the drops, these changes will just make the game more miserable.

To keep the thread on topic, I also do not think the UT system Deca is creating will be an appropriate solution.

We don’t know the conversion ratios. However, trading 5 gemstones for 1 crown is just unacceptable. Mark my words, I predict this “UT Conversion” system will be so convoluted it won’t be worth using. It pretty much violates the KISS rule from what we’ve seen.

#71

realm was ruined by pets.
itss tough to say that but its true
The harshness of dying and losing everything was the only way the game is sustainable to GROW HUGE
but we cant go back because yall will cry over your spent dollars…
UT Trading and 11.5k fame for ammys of resurrections=rotmg prime time.
& its still feasible with Lost Halls and all the progress of the developers but…pets…

#72

Guys lets not forget about the fact deca is working on a ut exchanging system.

#73

The problem is there’s a high likelihood the exchange rate won’t be very close to 1:1.