One of the things I see with this kinda item concept is that it’s similar to the crystal shield. Deca added an item that’s insanely broken on paper, so they added a brutally unforgiving debuff to it that makes it extremely niche use. Most people just use crystal shield to either stand on things or human decoy because it’s funny.
The 0HP set means you can’t get hit by anything for 4 seconds, and that’s a pretty tough thing to do in a lot of dungeons. I think a middle ground between oreo and crystal shield would be a great standing for this item. If it had a cooldown like oreo (maybe 8 seconds or something) along with the sick, I think the concept would be a lot stronger.
Oh, good points! I’ll try to edit this in the future but can only do couple quick edits for now (reformatting the formula is hard) thanks for pointing this out!
I just realized you could potentially eat all the bullets off of an enemy for a few seconds (I believe that’s how Invulnerability works?) and the potential to chain it if that happens.
Technically yes but (now with the cooldown) you’ll have to be comfortable with the other half of the ability making you very low on health inbetween those durations. You can’t really escape the other half of the ability duration with 4 seconds of sick and on being low on health.
For the mechanic itself tbh “its a sort of damned if you do, damned if you don’t” if you try to use vitality or defense to counteract the ability. because if you choose vitality, you’ll have more health to work with but less defense and vise-versa but vitality might be more favorable given you’re already working with invulnerability.
I’m considering the 4 seconds of sick being a bit too punishing and might reduce it down to 3 - 3.5? Still unsure but yeah. Even if you chain it, you’ll spend a significant duration being very much the opposite of invulnerable.
Hmm I see, but wouldn’t knights and paladins be able to do these sorts of things too? If I remember correctly the knight with Cshield and a specialized build with the appropriate buffs can tank shots up to 16 seconds.
Although the Cshield does have the speed penalty and Oreo is super rare with an uneven invulnerability period to a vulnerability period. Perhaps I make it uneven as well where its 3 seconds of invulnerability and 4.5 seconds of vulnerability?
This is an excellent point all things considered. Didn’t really factor in multiple people having this item. Will need to think a bit on balance a bit more. Thanks for bringing this up!
Edit: I just realized if something like this came out it would be pretty cool to see the melee brothers each take turns in becoming invulnerable to tank the bosses damage and allow their brothers to deal damage. Like something straight out of an anime fight or smtg, could be cool to see it animated to some extent. Sorry for going slightly off topic.
Increased cooldown and buffed heal scaling so it wouldn’t be too difficult to survive after the 3 seconds of invulnerability. This would mean a bit more downtime for the ability to make it difficult to perform in chains.
Sooo clearly here after a bunch of edits and I’ve never had cshield or eye, but this looks really cool. If anything I’d say the cooldown could be reduced and the heal could be greatly reduced or removed. I don’t see a huge concern with multiple people having this. A pseudo-stun only works on non-piercing projectiles which can already be done by cshield knights on enemies like Ava, and while possible, would likely remain incredibly rare.
I would like to mention that as far as I’m aware the actual biggest drawbacks of the two other items this mirrors:
Cshield is capable of longer duration and better abuse with E.Y.E. than this item, but I’d exceptionally susceptible to silence and quiet. Getting hit by either of those status effects while active immediately turns off the invincibility, requiring depper knowledge of enemy shots and phases.
Oreo is just very short. It cannot be very effectively used to actually pseudo-stun like cshield and is best for bursting through high damage walls with say snake eye ring in places like mbc survival or rushing. This mostly requires making the most of those two seconds, full stop.
This item would function like a bridge between the two items. Having double the duration of oreo without a speedy penalty means you could reasonably pseudo-tank for 2-3 seconds. But like oreo, silence and quiet aren’t a big concern thanks to the cooldown. This is not straight better than oreo though because of that sicken (as opposed to the healing oreo gives). Also using this while crossing pure evil as I’ve seen some oreos do would be a literal death sentence.
I like the idea of incentivising vit builds, but I don’t feel the heal is necessary. This does enough as is imo, leave the vit to keeping you from being killed by a single weak shot. Leave the heal to the group and lower the cooldown to like 7-8. That’s a better invulnerability ratio than oreo (currently it’s worse and in general 13s is way to long of a cooldown for any item imo), but the mechanics of the helm require near perfect play post-invulnerability, whereas oreo is somewhat forgiving, letting you have your 1k health+built-in healing.
Hmm, interesting points as well. Originally it did have 8.5 seconds as its cooldown and chaining might not really be too much of a problem. Post-edit the main reason the cooldown of the ability is like that is because I tried to think of the item in terms of the “process” and “chainability” (First 4 seconds Invulnerable, Next 3 Seconds Vulnerable, Next 3 Seconds to Heal or Retreat, 2 Seconds of Cooldown).
The heal is mainly there just so the length of the cooldown could be “managable” as well as preventing the chaining previously mentioned. If I was gonna remove the heal I’d most likely remove the cooldown as well all of these considered. Although might buff the vit scaling for setting the player’s health to a certain amount? I didn’t factor in the healing from Vitality ITSELF though but given that the warrior might already be in a high vitality if they want to consistently use this item… I may need to look up that math to back it up.
Honestly just scared if the “near perfect play post-invulnerability” is enough of a set back or would prevent abuse for certain bosses… though I’m glad this is the “middle-ground” as this was essentially what I was trying to go for in comparison to the other two items. I’ll need some time to edit or think about these sorts of things though but this comprehensive input is very much appreciated!
Ok this makes more sense now! It still feels rather long though, since you are pretty much committing to this gimmick even if it’s at 8. That’s half the time actually providing a buff for the group (compared to a non-cd helm) and likely half time of you providing next to no dps focusing on playing safe.
Despite this not slowing, it doesn’t make you immune to slow, so I’m not sure I’d use at O2 unless I knew a knight would follow me for a stun. I feel like you’re better off being speedy and circling/poking.
The only (relevant) thing I see this maybe breaking is survival… But having a longer cooldown just means you need 5 rather than 3 warriors (I’m sorry but I’ve seen these servers and I’m not risking my character for perfect timing if cd is 8). Even then you’d still have to be on your toes for towers and errant pop rock shots popping you, especially if you got slowed.
In the end it is just an idea, but a concept I agree would be cool to see (especially since warr is my second-least played class).
Hmm putting out my process of thought now… I might consider condensing the Heal-Retreat phase with the cooldown phase because I might as well. So 4 Seconds of Invulnerable, 3 Seconds of Vulnerability, and maybe 2.5 seconds to Heal or Retreat/Cooldown. Total of 9.5 Seconds.
Hmm I’m considering buffing the Berserk duration to 6 - 7.5 seconds? Considering that there is a moment where the warrior would be extremely vulnerable, a long berserk duration might be alright.
This is a valid concern but yeah, this helm is very much designed for short quick bursts before backing out. Slowing would be extremely detrimental now, and the tiny minions around a boss would suddenly become extremely threatening. I guess it would mainly be up to the player and if they would like this sort of play style ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Instead of quiet shots, you’ll have to be aware of slowing shots.
But I’m glad you see the concept could be something cool! It is very situational as it requires specific builds to consistently use it.
