I don’t know why people keep wanking about ninja’s high offensive stats when dps wise he can barely beat an unbuffed warr with csword. Ninja is just a warr with csword but traded the ability to go berzerk, 50 hp and 17 def for a piercing weapon. I would never choose ninja over warr unless I have to.
Ninja is kinda bad, so let's fix it
DreamIess
#22
Because Swords and Katanas aren’t anything alike? That’s like comparing Swords to Daggers, or Staves to Wands. It makes zero sense.
LHung
#23
Yeah, katana and csword only have a similar range and a similar dps output. Completely different in everyway.
DreamIess
#24
Well then surely we can compare Staff of Unholy Sacrifice to Pixie-Enchanted Sword, right?
No. We can’t.
LHung
#27
And for your answer that staff and pixie have different arc gap, the way their shot work and rate of fire. Lots of people said that staff feels like a weird but fun pixie for mystic.
DreamIess
#28
Never once have I heard that comparison being drawn.
Let’s look at Warrior vs Ninja this way:
- Both classes have their own intricacies and specifications that separate them far from each other as classes. While Warrior is made specifically for DPS in both its stats and its ability while happening to have great speed, the Ninja is much more made for Speed and happens to have really great DPS.
- The Warrior’s ability gives Berserk to allies and Speedy to the user for Tiered Helms. The Ninja’s ability when held down gives Speedy until there is no more Mana, or if simply pressed, it will fire a single, extremely-high damage projectile that can travel great distances.
- The Warrior’s weapon has a range of 3.5 but has very high Damage per Shot. The Ninja’s weapon has a range of 4.75 with damage closer to Dagger’s damage while also piercing.
- The Warrior wears Armors, which purely give Defense. The Ninja wears Leathers, which give decent Defense but give Dexterity as well.
- The UT Swords that Warrior can use are meant to change the utility of that class. Crystal Sword sacrifices a lot of damage for high range, Sword of the Colossus gives very high damage and a range of 4.5 for the hindrance of shots curving, Demon Blade sacrifices damage and accuracy for a 2nd shot, Pixie-Enchanted Sword sacrifices a lot more damage for 4 shots but also gives 4.5 range, and so on. Demon Blade’s shots are too wide to focus on a group and require being right up close. The UT Katanas that Ninja can use completely change the class and what it is capable of; Doku No Ken has a higher Rate of Fire and Range for shots being wavy and a bit less damage, Void Blade has extreme damage and low Fire Rate for no range and a projectile that acts as a landmine, Ray Katana sacrifices only a bit of damage for higher shot speed and a lot of range, and Celestial Blade sacrifices pierce and true range for 3 shots that are capable of hitting enemies in a group.
LHung
#29
Thank you for pointing why ninja is just a bad warr. Less dps, much less protection, serve no purpose to your group 90% of the time but slightly faster and with 1 more range.
DreamIess
#30
“just a bad warr”
Looks like every class needs to be a Warrior then.
Sorry that you get your dick hard because of one class, but other people can see why Ninja is good even when you can’t. If you’re so concerned about EVERYTHING BEING A WARRIOR, go make a Private Server where only Warriors are allowed and give it 50 UTs.
LHung
#31
Fine. Ninja is a bad class which serve no purpose to group and anything he can do there are better class to do it. This make you less mad, yes? I don’t even like warr.
DreamIess
#32
- Rogue also falls under this category, but people don’t complain about it being bad
- Sorcerer (without Fulmi) also doesn’t do anything for the group and is purely offensive
- Ninja is the best rushing class, since Speedy and 60 Max Speed
- Ninja can decimate anything from a long range with enough MP due to its extremely high damage on its tiered circles
What class has a single projectile that deals extreme damage?
What class can be Speedy for over 20 seconds with no pet?
What class has tiered weapons that deal high damage on a single shot that has moderate range and pierces?
None of these are beaten by other classes. Quivers don’t deal up to 850 - 950 damage per shot, as they paralyze; Ghastly Drape only gives Speedy for 2 seconds, Soul of the Bearer and Helms have a cooldown, and T6 Tome/Book of Geb only can go up to around 2.5 Seconds of Speedy; Daggers have moderate damage and range but don’t pierce, Wands have high range and pierce but have low damage due to the class, and Bows have a lower damage per shot and pierce.
Yet you sure seem to mention it a lot.
Xaklor
#33
JohnMH I happen to like ninja a lot too, but I gotta say you are doing an absolutely terrible job at defending it. for most people ninja really does appear to be a worse warrior. the key is in the piercing aspect of katanas, it’s all about piercing. you can blather on and on all day about all of the ninja’s other traits but they don’t even come close to making the difference that pierce does. here’s what the power of piercing looks like:
the black line is ninja’s true dps against 2 targets at once. ninja also has the extra benefit of being able to ignore pesky minions blocking shots, like what happens frequently in tombs. honestly the entire argument between ninja and warrior boils down to whether or not you appreciate piercing enough to sacrifice some defense: if you do, play ninja. if not, play warrior.
DreamIess
#35
I have no problem playing both, because they have their differences in playstyle. Ninja’s is far faster, while Warrior’s is far more aggressive. Both are classes in their own merit and can pull off different feats.
Also, why not show Warrior without Berserk on the graph? That would make a lot more sense, since the Helm is an ability that gives Berserk. Berserk isn’t a feature that comes installed.
Xaklor
#37
… yes it is. if you’re playing a warrior, you have a helm. if you have a helm, you have berserk.
DreamIess
#38
It’s part of the ability. It comes installed in the ability, but not directly to the character, as you have to use Mana to get that Berserk. Same with Paladin’s Damaging/Healing/HP Buff and Ninja’s Speedy.
Demaratus
#39
Comparing a good but difficult-to-use class to a broken class doesn’t mean much.
The warrior does absurdly high DPS, even with a crystal sword. Does that mean rogues, tricksters, or assassins with cdirks are worse than the warrior? Not at all.
Regarding the changes you proposed:
-
Speed buff
The ninja is already the fastest class in the game, because he can maintain a speed buff for an extremely long time. The extra 15 speed might actually prove to be a liability because it would be more difficult to control his movements, especially when rushing. -
Katana change
Getting rid of the piercing effect gets rid of the main reason the katana is unique. The extra damage is nice, but I would prefer an ordinary katana to a longer-range sword. -
Shuriken change
If by accessory you mean ring, then this change is absurdly overpowered. 50% increased stats can go a long way, especially on a health ring. Slow immunity would also be very strong, especially with the 75 speed you proposed.
CookieMage
#40
Realism is a very important thing for me when I play realm, so thank you for taking that into account.
While it is true that the Ninja is inferior to the Sorcerer, don’t you think it’s a bit unfair to place him against such an absurdly good class to begin with? I mean by all accounts, Sorcerer is already the best class in the game by far.
Just look at these good arguments for Sorcerer made by other forum users:
In the words of Xaklor
Every class is bad compared to the Sorcerer. As such, I think this thread should be changed a bit so that instead of comparing the Ninja to the Sorcerer, which is absolutely unreasonable because of how broken and OP the Sorcerer is, that we compare the Ninja to something that it is much closer to, like the Warrior.