One More Time (Updated)

#30

did you even remotely read what i was talking about, because i specifically said that it is sometimes literally impossible to just dodge :tm:

#31

it’s not. realm hitboxes are dumb but you can theoretically dodge everything or at least a significant amount

#32

is your point about the ic/ooc system or hitboxes, because you can’t switch between both

also, i’m not going to continue this if you’re just going to repeat “just dodge” in different wording. sorry if that comes off as rude, but i don’t have the patience for it.

#33

I mean this is true, if you are just playing a class with purely WC tops (except when you are Exalting a class) it gets real boring. Forging somewhat solves the problem that you mentioned but ST are still in a bad position.

Pretty sure Cheerful Chipper got nerfed after it came to Prod. Though yes, some items needs rebalancing. The current status of endgame white bags be like “I am the best and nobody can compete against me”.

May you list me the items that needs rebalancing, more than just Chipper?

Secondly, as XYemmy mentioned, Summoner is not a Wis-mod class despite of having 75 Wis cap, thus MLab Robe obviously better than Ritual (the respective UT’s is best on Wis-mod classes).

Man what? I would LOVE to get my 1st Nil, I need that extra Defence…

#34

At first, thank you for your detailed statement, DreamIess!

hmmm… yes, it is. I never ended any endgame dungeon. It’s hard enugh to get a char that far that I could give it a try, but I see no chance doing one of the endgame dungeons (also i’m a liitle bit color blind, what makes me do not see every projectile). And I’m guaranteed not to never use discord (don’t want to strip me naked to these … yes, I read the data privace policy).

#35

Forging itself is stupid as well. I made a majority of my Summoner’s useful items with nothing but Candy Rings and a Spectral + Beehemoth Armor, along with some CCs for a Fallen.

Yeah, it did, and that’s what I was mentioning; its DPS was so stupid and protested that it was given the nerf before being put in Prod.

Prepare for a long list. This doesn’t include a decent amount of ST Stuff or some limited stuff because frankly I couldn’t be bothered to look through everything.

  • All Oryx’s Sanctuary items but Divine Coronation, but especially Lumiere, Battalion Banner, Vesture of Duality, Genesis Spell, Exalted God’s Horn, Gladiator Guard, Centaur’s Shielding, Turncoat Cape on Rogue and Chaotic Scripture.
  • The Forgotten Crown.
  • Sword of the Colossus and Magical Lodestone.
  • Bow of the Void and Ring of Omnipotence, Omnipotence less so.
  • Staff of Unholy Sacrifice and Ritual Robe.
  • Soul’s Guidance.
  • Pirate King’s Cutlass is being added here for the fact it’s just a slightly different, untiered Splendor.
  • Doku No Ken’s Proc.
  • Cloak of the Planewalker. Yes, this is actually on here.
  • Tablet of the Forgotten King, Spelling Spell and Sporous Spray Spell.
  • Tome of the Mushroom Tribes.
  • Crystal Shield.
  • Cave Dweller Trap, in comparison to other Traps specifically.
  • Wavecrest Concertina.
  • Robe of the Mad Scientist.
  • Water Dragon Silk Robe.
  • Resurrected Warrior’s Armor on Warrior and Paladin.
  • Soulful Affection.
  • Entropy Reactor, though nobody needed to say this. Hell, even Loaded Core.
  • Foreman’s Hardhat.
  • Ancient Spell.
  • Theurgy Wand.
  • Tricorne of the High Seas.
  • Vortex Plating, from what I’ve seen.
  • Gjallarhorn when used with Dalvar’s Battle Axe.
  • Squaroid Staff, from what I’ve seen.
  • Harmonious Harp.
  • Hirejou Tenne.
  • Helm of the Juggernaut.
  • E.Y.E.
  • Honey Scepter Supreme.
  • Predator Bow.

While it’s true Summoner has no Wis Mod, the question comes to this: why is a robe that drops from a Common Quest dungeon performing better than a robe that drops from an Endgame Dungeon when both are designed mostly for the same purpose: more ability uses?

Hell, I don’t even think other people are seeing just how ridiculous Lab Robe is in the grand scheme of things. 25% might not seem like a big number for a lot of abilities, but if you’re using things with a high cost, then it’ll always perform better than Ritual Robe almost regardless, because the lost Wis Mod is immediately supplemented by the fact you’re getting insane amounts of MP saved. It’s most noticeable on things like Chaotic Scripture, Tome of Holy Protection and Soul of the Bearer, which are reduced from 150 to 113 MP Cost.

This is actually a very good opportunity to talk about something DECA absolutely needs to add: color filters and some assists for those visually impaired. I know someone who is sensitive to red light to the point that looking at it for too long - which is minutes at most - outright makes their eyes hurt, which immediately removes Abyss of Demons from things they can do. Not to mention, being colorblind can make a lot of things extremely hard to see, especially in areas like the Mountains when there’s Beholders or Ghost Gods, or in Lost Halls for the rocks in Marble Colossus.

This is something that DECA has yet to even try touching on, when really, they’d get a lot of potential new players if they were to do something as simple as add a Blue Light Filter or Colorblind Assist to the game, because people who are visually impaired will be able to play the game properly.

UTs need to be changed
#36

I think a better way to tackle of having to be lucky would be implementing a piggy-bank mechanism to droprates. Like this one:
Add some true form of loot forgiveness - Ideas / Other - Forum | RealmEye.com

Meanwhile I raided like 140+ Mountain Temples but only got one actual white (aka Aether Orb). I forged 3-4 Fallen but yet to get an actual one…

I am guess you are nerfing everything? I would love to see your ideas of rebalancing on those respective UT’s to confirm my guess.

For O3 whites that you mentioned:

  1. Horn isn’t that good when compared to Coronation, as the +10 Dex is turned off if you are less than 90% HP. Coronation retain its +8 Dex regardless meeting the HP threshold or not AND having +55 MP for some classes like Samu. Heck, even before Coro got buffed, I would still take it over Horn.

  2. Lumiaire… I can’t really think ways to nerf it other than reducing the maximum range and its damage?

  3. I wouldn’t nerf Gladiator Guard but buffing Mercy to make an actual difference between those 2 respective DPS armors.

  4. Vesture… oof. I think this one is gonna be a nerf than a buff. The only nerf I can think would be reducing its Attack buff from +15 to +10. IDK, I would like to see your proposal.

  5. Genesis… This one might be a nerf. Maybe decrease its damage to 200, duration and its frequency to 3 seconds but grant armor piercing?

  6. Centaur’s Shielding… Possible nerf (as I do remember you said it outcompetes Tenne when you are in Healing status). Maybe strip off its reactive proc, distribute DPS stats equally (+6 Dex/Att) and give it +40 HP?

  7. Turncoat Cape on Rogue (I can tell it’s the permacloaking issue)… Maybe nerfing it by not becoming visible again when getting hit after Invisiblity from cloak wears off until its cooldown is finished?

  8. Banner… Can’t tell you want a nerf or a buff on that UT.

  9. CScripture (again you complained that it outcompetes max-Wis build Devastation on Sorc): Possibly nerfing Chaos Beam’s damage by 50% (or maybe even up to 60%) and strip off its healing property?

For everything else:

Crown… Looks like you want to nerf it? Can’t tell…

Colo + Potato… I think you want to nerf them. Maybe decreasing Colo’s effective range or/and its damage? Or making it a sidegrade to T14? I mean it can somewhat compete with Majesty as the respective tiered sword deals similar damage to Colo and it can shoot straight. For Potato… reverting its stats back to its pre-buffed state?

Bow of the Void… I heard Seelpit wanted it to give 2 shots, weaker damage but give it armor piercing. IDK how would you want to rebalance it. Omni… I can’t think a way to rebalance it, again I want to hear YOUR idea.

Unholy Sacrifice + Ritual Robe… Only thing I can think would be strip off its backward shooting, nerf its damage but give it normal firerate? Buffing Ritual Robe even further?

SGuidance… Nerf? Making it a sidegrade to T12? Can’t tell what you want.

Cutlass… I can tell that’s a possible sidegrade.

Doku’s Proc… Nerfing its total damage but decrease its duration? Make it deal 800 damage in total and lasting 4 seconds? Increase its cooldown to 5 seconds?

Planewalker… Don’t know that’s a nerf or buff or even sidegrade.

Tablet + Spelling Spell + SSS… Nerfing Tablet’s damage to 200 consistent damage but decrease the MP cost to 90? Can’t think one for Spelling Spell. For SSS… decrease its damage to something like 800 or even up to 600?

Tome of the Mushroom Tribe + CShield + CDTrap… nerfs?

Concertina… I think you want that a nerf. So far, I can think of greatly decrease its duration by 50% (which in thus, reduces the total damage to 900). Or maybe make the parrot follows the enemy as well? I wouldn’t strip off its Armor Piercing property though.

Robe of the Mad Scientist… Can’t think a way to rebalance it other than reduce the ability discount cost?

Water Dragon Silk Robe… This thing got buffed a while back so I can’t tell how to rebalance that…

Resu on Warrior + Paladin… Paladin can already benefit with Resu, as a +20 Wis increase the max HP boost by 40, which can make a difference in some situation. On Warrior, Resu increases Helm’s duration by 2 seconds and its buffing range by 2 squares.

Soulful Affection… I can think of increasing Vit/Wis gain by 5 more (meaning a +10 Wis/Vit) but decreasing the HP gain by 1/3?

Entropy Reactor + Loaded Core… Nerf? Buff? Can’t tell.

Foreman’s Hardhat… It’s getting more rarer now and I don’t think it needs a nerf or a buff anytime soon.

Ancient Spell… I… don’t know about this either, as it already deals less damage than tiered spell.

Theurgy Wand… Want to hear your thought.

No they don’t. Ritual Robe is about souping up Wis-mod’s abilities’ potency like Sorc’s Scepter. MLab Robe is about ability usage efficiency.

#37

It’s probably the least stupid of the items I specifically mentioned, but generally, if you can keep up your health it performs better than Crown. And Crown is already kind of dumb in that it gives more DPS stats than an Unbound ring while also giving 110 Health; Horn gives Health and Defense.

The range is meh, but the damage definitely needs to be lowered on it. Or, possibly, its Rate of Fire. Either way, its DPS is way too monstrous.

I find Mercy to be pretty balanced compared to everything else, as it’s a massive loss of Defense for the DPS it gives. Gladiator, however, is not much of a loss at all compared to other Defense items while also giving just under the DPS of Mercy’s Bane and more Speed than even Zaarvox’s Heart. It’s pretty much just Mercy’s Bane + Zaarvox’s Heart, but on steroids.

Vesture would serve better if you got more Attack based on how much MP you use. As is, you can just use something like Spelling Spell on Wizard, or the T0 of any class, and get an unruly amount of Attack basically for free, which is a huge issue.

The total damage is the issue, of course. Back before Sanctuary, there was someone who made an idea for a spell that overall did 10k or so total damage, and I - along with others, if I recall correctly - were very against it, so I don’t know why it’s suddenly fine when DECA does it.

Having its overall damage reduced to, say, 7k - 8k would suffice, and adding Armor Pierce would make it a bit more niche. However, Armor Pierce should only be applied if the damage reduction is on the lower end.

The issue isn’t really how easy it is to get the Healing status, but rather just how much DPS you get because of it. Lowering the overall amount of DPS stats to make it around equal to that of Tenne, and giving it a bit more Defense or some HP, would work well enough.

I think you’re on the right track, but wording is off. But yes, the general idea is that there should be a Cooldown for when you can get Invisible again, not when you can activate the Proc again. (I don’t even like the Proc itself, but I’m saying it should be nerfed, not completely changed.)

100% needs a nerf. It’s essentially just a supplement for Paladin that any class can use, and since HP Boosts generally don’t get super high unless you have a Paladin that has Tier 7 and a monstrous amount of Wisdom, it won’t be that much of a loss to instead just bring a few people that have Banner instead.

The MP Cost nerf was a step in the right direction, but that’s a side-effect of the Tome nerf(which I overall disagree with for specific reasons) and not because they felt the Tome was OP. The Damage would serve just fine at around 1000 - 1500 and with a bit less range, and the Heal being a tad less would also help, but not by too much so it still serves the dual purpose.

Absolutely. There’s a lot of different things that you could do with Crown that would make it still strong but more fair in use, and the one I personally went with for [ private server name ] is an Equip Summon.

Basically, it just summons two Royal Guardians that deal a decent sum of damage but attack slowly, while having Armor Pierce. As a drawback, the Health is reduced to 100, the Attack is reduced to 5, and the Dexterity is also reduced to 5 but turned into Vitality. Provides DPS all the same, but in a different form and overall less nuts.

Colo’s old Amplitude/Frequency was a lot more fair, as there was less room for you to miss in order to get the damage. Of course, just a tad less damage would also help, but mostly making it less reliable so you have to properly aim it would be best.

As for Potato, reducing the other stats back to the original while adding a minimal HP bonus would help, maybe around 40 or 50.

Void, as is, just… lacks its own gimmick. It’s just a one shot bow. However, giving it a bit lower range and damage, with adding Armor Pierce in exchange, would help it stand out from the other one shot bows. Making it two shot would feel even weirder as it would essentially be called Coral Bow 2.

As for Omni, it’s mostly the stats that are bothersome, but I can actually think of a way to make the item more interesting overall, and it’s another concept that I used in [ private server name ].

Essentially, depending on what stat is lower - Health or Mana - the lower stat will heal faster, while the higher stat will heal slower. These values can be argued over, but an ideal number would be around 33% to 50%. In exchange, remove Health and Mana from the ring entirely.

Unholy Sacrifice would work best with its Rate of Fire being put back to 50% and reducing its Damage by a bit, roughly in the 15 range for both Min and Max.

As for Ritual Robe, the amount of Wisdom it had was fine before, but if they want to keep the Wisdom at 20, it would work fine if the Attack was reduced to around 3. Either way, the Mana could be reduced down to 20 in exchange for an extra point of Defense or even two.

Reduce the damage to around 350, increase the Cooldown to around 0.6 at bare minimum, and remove the ability to Curse entirely. Hell, you could even just make the Proc a passive and increase the Cooldown to around 1.2 Seconds instead, because you’re going to get the Proc to activate very often either way.

Decreasing the damage alone would help, but I feel that the most prominent issue is the fact you can just switch weapons while the Cooldown is going down, and then switch back when it’s back up to just use it again. It would be best for the item if the Cooldown only went down while the item is equipped.

It definitely needs less Invisible (possibly around 4 Seconds) and a downtime of 1.5 Seconds instead of 1 Second. Teleportation is ridiculous in a lot of scenarios since you don’t have to worry about dodging or going around certain parts of a map, you can just skip all of it, and for what? 15 more MP than T6?

Also, they never even bothered to nerf the Invisible time of Planewalker away from that of T6, despite T5 being lowered.

Tablet needs a unique gimmick instead of relying on what spells already do, but even stronger because of the boomerang. It’s debatable as to what that would be, but overall it just needs something.

Spelling Spell’s max damage just needs a nerf by a reasonable margin. It’s a Mistake item but has the highest Damage-to-MP ratio behind that of Genesis Spell, for some reason?

And for Sporous, definitely just reducing the damage would be good enough, since its niche would be present without it feeling too strong. However, this brings up a major issue; Penetrating Blast Spell is just an extremely weaker version of Sporous, and that’s something that needs to be addressed.

I feel for Penetrating Blast, giving it a short Armor Break and increasing its MP Cost as a result would work wonders. It gives it a good enough niche while not making its presence greater than that of Ogmur or “POgmur”.

Mushroom Tribe needs less heal. That’s it.

Crystal Shield is an absolute fucking mess, however. I don’t need to talk about it in relation to E.Y.E. because there’s already videos that show that, but my god, the sheer amount of Invincibility you can get with it is absolutely dumb compared to an actual event white(Oreo). Even if it costs more, that doesn’t excuse it, since I’d rather spend more Mana for a longer duration than less Mana so I can spread it out.

And Cave Dweller… I think the damage of that needs to be reduced in exchange for Vile Spirit’s damage being increased a decent margin. I got that trap the week it came out way back when, and it was just… so weak. It felt like such an underwhelming Event White, even for that time.

They need to add a Cooldown both to the Proc and the activated effect. That’s what it’s missing.

Less MP Cost reduction, but also adding a minimum decrease so it’s still useful on lower tier abilities and such. Perhaps around 15%, but a minimum decrease of 7?

I think that the Proc just wasn’t at all needed, personally. It had its place as the Speed robe, and with the added Attack they added with the Proc, it would’ve been perfect as just that; a strong DPS robe with some Speed as well, at the cost of ability power. However, of course, they had to add a Proc…

On Knight it isn’t as noticeable, but the fact that a mana armor gives 20 wisdom is pretty out of place. It was just fine with 5 Wisdom, but then they increased it to 15 and added another Proc, then increased it to 20?

Just halving the amount of Wisdom it gives and the amount of Wisdom it takes would be enough, since they’re insistent on keeping procs on everything.

Health needs a reduction for sure, but I don’t think giving it 10 Wis and Vit would be good either. Just reducing the health alone, and maybe adding one Vit and Wis, would be enough, even if it’s a limited item.

Absolutely need nerfs. 100%. I cannot overstate just how stupid the stat increases are, as well as the overwhelming amount of Procs that are present on them both. The Procs themselves, even on their respective items, are super dumb but putting them all together with individual cooldowns is a complete and utter mistake. Reducing the strength of the Procs to around 2/3 of the original and reducing the amount of stats you get would work well enough while not getting rid of its presence entirely.

The Mana it gives is the only stupid part about the item, and all the other hardhats for that matter. If they were reduced substantially (maybe half) it would be fine, since it relies on Combat.

Needs a higher MP Cost, by at least +20.

Its Amplitude/Frequency should be tweaked to make it a tad harder to hit, much like Staff of Esben’s. As is, it’s extremly easy to hit both shots and as such can completely replace all tiered wands; if it were harder to hit, it’d be an actual decision to make.

The thing about adding a lot of Wisdom is that you can’t have Wisdom without it being used for more ability uses, as Wisdom in that harsh of an amount will make you inherently able to use way more abilities. And I think that’s just fine; making a Robe specifically designed for using abilities more is a great idea. However, as is, you’re stuck between two items from dungeons that have drastically different difficulty for the same purpose.

I don’t think that Lab Robe’s effect is bad or anything, but I don’t think it should outright replace an endgame white in all scenarios for classes that don’t have Wis Mod. It should be at least something of a competition, or reliant on how much MP the ability uses like with all of the 150 MP abilities.

#38

I didn’t finish the proposal of all the UT’s you mentioned but here are the rest of them.

  1. Tricorne of the High Seas… Don’t know how would you rebalance it…

  2. Vortex Plating… Maybe reduce the numbers of projectile?

  3. Gjallarhorn when used with the Battle Axe… Give it a +15 Dex buff instead? Maybe that could nerf it?

  4. Squaroid Staff… Strip off its 150% firerate?

  5. Harmonious Harp… Don’t know how to rebalance this one…

  6. Hirejou Tenne… Buff? Nerf?

  7. Helm of the Juggernaut… I don’t know if it needs more nerf or not because Armored already got nerfed to 1.5x Defence. And plus, it’s not that good on O3 as there are armies of armor piercing shots…

  8. E.Y.E… Definitely gonna be nerf. I heard some dude said the proc should trigger only if you are taking actual damage.

  9. Honey Scepter Supreme… Don’t know how to rebalance this one…

  10. Predator Bow… This one got nerfed a while back… so I don’t know if it needs more nerf or not.

#39

This one needs more of a rework than a rebalance, since it’s just a worse tiered Helm in exchange for the cannonball attack. It would work better if, instead of the cannonballs being a Proc, they were part of the actual ability.

Say, the Berserk stays how it is; low duration, not the most reliable. However, you use the ability for the high damage shotgun, and even though it would cost a fair amount more MP than it does now, it’s useful without needing to rely on a Proc that requires taking damage.

And to supplement the fact that Draconic Dominance fires shots as well, you could give that an effect, such as Slowed so it has a bit of the original feel where it Paralyzed.

I’d probably say just reduce the damage it can deal down to 2/3, or make it based on the amount of MP you use, like my Vesture suggestion.

Dexterity increase would be miles better, and would allow it to be used in groups that already have Berserk.

I’ll have to check just how to use the staff, but if what I’m thinking of is correct, just reducing it to around 125% would be good enough.

Slight damage reduction. As is, it beats Void for a good bit, when really that shouldn’t be the case given that the only drawback of Harp is its Shot Speed, which is actually helpful for enemies with set movement patterns(which is a lot).

Needs a sharp tank in Defense, just like how Mercy’s Bane is. To supplement this, the Defense could be given to Reikoku, as that’s the item that requires going close to enemies to use it anyways and is part of the set.

The only thing this needs is for the Cooldown to come back. The rest is whatever, but the fact that you can now infinitely get Armored - which in turn will make you way less susceptible to going into Combat - is way too ridiculous for 90 MP.

It’d be better if the damage was based on how much damage you took and adding a multiplier of some sort, or making it exponential. Right now, it having a set damage means you can go Armored with something like Jugg and deal mass amounts of damage to enemies without needing to lose even 100 HP.

Damage. That’s all you need to reduce. Even if it’s meant to literally just be a better Honey Scepter, that doesn’t change the fact it’s a Mistake item, which are meant to be joke items.

Still seriously strong, to the point that it needs it even more. It being a Limited doesn’t excuse anything.

#40

I don’t think there’s really going to be any way to balance items that give damaging procs that doesn’t give an advantage to solo play or group play. If you think about it, a Damaging/Berserk buff is stronger in solo play, but a dps stat buff would make it stronger in group play. IMO I think that the berserk buff and damaging buff from the nordic st set parts and battalion banner respectively should stay the same since solo play is a lot less common today in realm than before, and honestly just bringing a warrior and pally into a dungeon would be infinitely stronger than a pally with nordic st gear or a warrior with banner respectively, even with hp scaling.

#41

Think of it this way.

Berserk is a status effect that is intrinsically tied to Warrior’s Helmets; almost every single Helm in the game has the effect alongside a secondary effect. The effect that you gain from Gjallarhorn and the Axe also uses this effect, which means that for Warrior, this combination is completely invalid, whereas with Paladin it’s absurdly strong both in solo play and in groups without Berserk.

Hell, someone ran the numbers, and a solo buffed Paladin with Dalvar, Gjallarhorn and WC tops beats a solo buffed Paladin with Colo and WC tops until 186 Defense because of the Berserk. Dalvar isn’t even that strong of a Sword, doing comparable damage to Acclaim. (I think it needs a minor Damage nerf, but it’s not as big of a deal, hence why I didn’t mention it specifically.)

With a Dexterity boost, though it won’t be as overall powerful, it would allow it to have equal use on every Sword class. Hell, if you really wanted to keep the Berserk, the effect could only give you Berserk if you use the shield instead, as that would make it an option exclusively for Knight, the class it’s made for. It wouldn’t be stealing any niche either, as no other shield gives you a status effect.

(I’m just pretending Crystal Shield doesn’t exist don’t mind me.)

#42

I can agree to an extent. My point was that the nordic st gear (and by extent, the berserk gained from the proc) is better for solo play, because you’re allowed to deal more damage. It may seem overpowered, but even then, just one pally and warrior together in a dungeon can deal more dps than just a pally with berserk. I understand that the double buff is really strong in solo play, but in group play (which is the current meta, with raiding servers being prevalent and the such), this is completely useless, since you already have warriors in the first place. Compare this to giving a dex buff: while this would balance the dps in solo play, this be EXTREMELY broken in group play, since this would allow for the pally to reach insane amounts of dps because of the free dex boost. I think we all have seen how strong effusions and even tincs can be in group play, and a dex buff like this is essentially a free 500+ dps boost to pally whose getting buffs from a warrior…

I can agree that a proc like this should’ve stayed on the shield, as this proc was meant for the st set, and really shouldn’t have put on the sword since its a bit too strong on pally and is straight up useless on warrior, but saying that a dex boost would fix this issue just isn’t true since it would be abused in group play.

#43

My two cents still remain as this, generally:

This game, at its original state, was little more than an intriguing concept that happened to get popular after its little digital art competition. It was trying to break as many of the original rpg rules as it could at the time, and hodge-podged a lot of features over time.

I daresay that most of Dreamless’ assessments are correct; this game continues to attempt being a jack of all trades, but ends up being a master of none. With that, I believe that it takes a special kind of player to enjoy this ancient system vs. other game options available right now. Rotmg is among the most ambitious Flash game designs I’ve seen up until Flash itself was discontinued!

Nowadays, I’m more intrigued about where the game is going than where it is now. There’s some passionate players who’ve joined DECA, and I understand that they have some grand ideas to implement in the future… whatever that’ll do to the game. I’m curious to see where Realm will be in a DECAde+ from now (if it lasts that long), but I agree that in its current state, now is a bad time to come into/back into the game. There’s a reason I don’t really recommend it to people I know at this time, and I think DECA is wise to hold their peace in trying to attract new players en masse yet. Obtaining a bunch of new players that see how Rotmg is now could shoot it in the foot early.

I suppose, as a conclusive thought, I personally don’t know how much I’d actually want the basic design, in all of its glaring flaws, to change much or not. I could be very wrong in saying this, but I feel that if this game pushes to act more like, say, a rogue-like, rpg, true bullet heck etc., it might kill the game, because so many better options exist in each of those genres. People stick with this because it’s so unique in all its brokenness or they’re addicted and can’t leave, intrigued by the features no other game offers in the way this one does.

#44

Part of the original charm - at least for me - was that even though it was a bullet hell and had a lot of interesting phases, at its core, it was still a very simple game and had understandable mechanics that could be pushed a bit without necessarily becoming too exaggerated.

However, with the push that DECA has been making to make it much more complex, not only does it lose the original value that it had in that regard, it’s now making them have to live up to completely different standards and as such, what was once completely fine is now boring and stale in comparison, which is the 2nd biggest issue that I still find with the game in its current state. All of the new stuff is super complicated while the rest, outside of things they’ve changed for the wrong reasons like Doku, is left in the past and generally too simple. They failed to achieve the fine balance between simple and complex designs together.

I highly doubt that they’d want to ditch a lot of their wacky designs because that would defeat the purpose of a lot of marketing towards “look at all of this stuff we achieved on Exalt that wasn’t possible in Flash!”, but they can’t continue to be both overly complex and overly simple. It’s too stark of a contrast for people to really find palatable in the long run.

I also think think that they just need to completely stop doing Admin Arenas, or do them substantially less. Not a single person I’ve talked to regarding them has found it positively, especially among veteran players, and the only thing it does to keep people around is make them come to expect these arenas that give them such an ungodly amount of free stuff that generally you’d have to work for.

#45

In my mind, I would nerf Horn… +120 HP, +4 Def and the +6 Dex when you are shooting above 90% HP.

Let me try this… reduce its damage to 70-90 damage but keep its firerate?

Possible Glad Guard nerf: +20 Def and +5 Dex/Attack/Speed. Could that work?

For every 5 MP used on an ability, increase Attack boost by 1. Using a Tablet for example would net +24 Attack boost for 5 seconds.

Each portal deal 150 armor piercing damage in every 0.4 seconds for 4 seconds. Deals 6k damage in total if all portals focused on one target.

Decrease Centaur’s DPS stats to +5 Attack/Dex but gives +40 HP as a bonus.

Reactive Proc: Gladiator Blow. When the wearer is under Healing status effect, grant +3 Dex/Attack for 4.5 seconds with a downtime of 1.5 seconds.

Hm how about this…

Reactive Proc (Chief’s Encouragement): Upon using an ability, grants +20 Attack, strip off its damaging wave. Duration + cooldown remain the same.

For Scripture…
Upon ability use, summons a Chaos Beam on your cursor, dealing 1000-1500 armor piercing damage in a 2 square radius. Party Heal by 100 HP (unaffected by Wismod) and unaffected by Split Heal.

Reactive Proc (Royal Assault): Upon ability activation, summons 2 Royal Guardian that deals 60 Armor Piercing damage and 5 projectiles each. Attack in every 1 seconds for 4 seconds. 2 seconds downtime.

Colo’s Stat: 270-280 damage. Amplitude/Frequency: 0.5 tiles

Magical Lodestone: +5 Dex/Attack/Speed/Def and +40 HP

That would be a bit too identical to Bergenia…

For Omni: Reactive Proc (Channeling of the Light). When one of the stat HP/MP is lower, 2x the natural regeneration (effectively equal to 4x Wis/Vit regeneration when OoC).

Unholy Sacrifice: 130-140 damage per projectile, 50% firerate.

Ritual Robe: +20 Wis, +3 Attack, +50 MP +12 Def

I would take the 1st option.

Ok let me try… Poison Burst: Deal 800 damage (200 damage per second) in total and lasting 4 seconds. Cooldown: 5 seconds and timer only goes down when the respective weapon is equipped.

For Tablet, I would try… Effect (King’s Wisdom): Upon using the ability, grants +20 Wisdom for 4 seconds. Cooldown remain the same.

Spelling Spell: I would go for 10-80 damage if that would work.

Sporous: Deadly Mushroom, 800 damage for every 1 seconds lasting total of 4 seconds.

I got this… Effect (Lightning’s Vengance): When all shots hit, Armor Breaks the target for 4 seconds. Costing 100 MP.

Tome of the Mushroom Tribe: On ability use, creates a healing Mushroom and heals 100 HP.

Crystal Shield… Don’t know your idea for that rebalancing…

Cave Dweller… Um I would say 400 damage per tick (which is 1 second) and the Sentry lasts 4 seconds. Maybe that could work?

Here are the numbers for Concertina…

Fighting Parrots: 450 damage within 2 squares every 1 second. (900 maximum total) Ignore Defence of the target.

Reactive Proc Feather Frenzy: 5% chance upon shooting for a fighting parrot to protect you for 3 seconds.

Cooldown on effect and Proc: 5 seconds (which means 1 second of downtime).

Alright…

Scientist’s Expertise : On ability use, discount 15% MP on ability use, but caps the reduction to 7 Mana cost when casting an ability.

I don’t agree but ok…

On equip: +17 DEF, +150 MP, +10 WIS

On equip: +140 HP, +6 Wis/Vit

I don’t know man but ok…

  • Subtotal of Bonuses: +80 HP, +60 MP, +7 ATT, +7 DEF, +7 DEX, +6 SPD

Corrosion: Deals 1,000 total poison burst that lasts 4 seconds.

Dark Matter: Armor Breaks targets in 2 square radius for 3 seconds.

Power: Paralyzes within 2.5 square radius for 3 seconds.

Warp: Decoy for 4 seconds.

I… don’t get it.

MP cost for Ancient Spell: 100.

Let me try… 0.3 tiles amplitude/frequency?

Ahh… How about this… Berserk and Speedy is unaffected by Wismod but each time you trigger the ability, launches Cannon Cluster that deals the current damage.

Reactive Proc (Absorption of the Void): On ability use, release a nova of projectile that deals 200 damage, 12 shots.

Yeah that’s what I said, give it +15 Dex instead of Berserk.

Rate of fire: 125%.

Damage: 110-120 damage per Harp note.

Hm… this is a hard one… I might as well give Reikoku +5 Def to compensate Tenne’s Defence loss (pst, I once wore Tenne with UBDef instead).

Now THIS one I strongly disagree. Pre-nerfed Armored with WC top Warrior can give 118 Defence, that may be a bit too much.

Post-nerfed Armored would give around 88 Defence with the same setup. To maximize Jugg’s effectiveness to pre-nerfed state, you will have to aim for maximum Defence build (which in exchange you are sacrificing your DPS):

2%20Warriors%20with%20max%20Defence%20build
2 Warriors with max Defence build.png1366x768 104 KB

And judging from your wording, it tells me that you are assuming that you are farming on GLand (dungeons). But once you move on to endgame content, you’ll be In Combat regardless of Armored or not, but the damage mitigation can still make a difference between life or death.

This one… I will have to give your idea a hard pass.

Let me see… for each 1 damage you take, E.Y.E would deal 5 damage. Maybe that work.

Damage: 50 damage. Could that work?

Damage: 70-80 but increase its firerate to 80%. Could that work?

It’s fine you don’t want to say the h-word. I would think “bullet storm” would be better to describe it without being in the swearing situation.

#46

Ok I am finished. Took me forever, like actually more than a day to do this…

#47

+8 works fine, as it requires being above a certain HP value.

Something more like 80-95.

4 Attack/Dexterity and 5 Speed would probably be around the best value to keep it from going unused.

Yeah, something like that. Maybe just make it start 20 MP or so, so lower tier abilities can’t give a lot of it.

That’s definitely more reasonable. Could probably get away with 160-165 or so damage(not a damage range, just somewhere in that area for static damage).

To make sure that the Proc is still worth using, both the passive stats and Proc could give 4 Attack and 4 Dexterity each. Also, just to keep it a bit more… up to par with some of the other leathers defensively - due to requiring Healing to get full DPS - boosting the Defense to 11 would be fine. Leviathan does give a lot of both Defense and Dexterity.

I’m not sure that reverting the Wis Mod on the Tome is the best idea, but the Chaos Beam portion is good like that. Requires aiming and the MP Cost makes it generally strong but not extreme.

I don’t even mean as a Proc, I just mean passively. If it were a Proc that damage would be a little okay, but would need a tad less damage due to armor pierce; if it were passive, the projectile count would work better if it were, say, 4 and had the reduced damage.

A damage range more around 270-290 would allow it to keep up with T14 while not invalidating it, though the Amplitude and Frequency are good.

Lodestone here is ideal.

For Void, if it had pierce and armor pierce but the lowest (non-true) range, it would be a nice parallel to Bergenia having the longest range and no pierce. Both would be more diverse in how they’re used because of that, even if both possess armor pierce.

As for Omni, 2x is a bit too much with high Vit builds or characters. Or, at the very least, the other stat’s regeneration should be halved. Ideally, though, somewhere around 50% would be noticeable without being absurd.

A cooldown of 3 seconds works fine if the weapon has to be equipped.

Naming effects like extra Wisdom isn’t really necessary, but I get the gist.

Spelling Spell having 10-80 would work fine, even if I’m personally more gunning for around 10-70.

As for Sporous, 750 damage with the lowered attack cooldown and duration would be perfect. That’d total to 3k.

Since each Mushroom heals 3 times, somewhere more around 75 would be best.

Cave Dweller would work just fine with 1600 total damage given the lack of hitting other targets but still being cheap.

But Crystal Shield… I’m going to be entirely honest. I am completely and utterly dissatisfied that the item even exists, given just how absurdly broken it is unless there’s an entity that has Quiet shots, which isn’t very much; and Silenced isn’t the same either, because it only helps the damn thing since you can only use the When Key Held effect and not have to worry about firing the shot by mistake. There’s no fixing this without neutering it entirely, or just making it Oreo 2; the only thing left would be to rework it entirely, which I’m not trying to really do here.

Works.

Works.

Mana is a tricky stat overall to work with, but in the grand scheme of things, it allows you to save up a lot of mana for more repeated uses of an ability, and adding a ton of Wisdom is just negating the existence of Mana on the item entirely. You could do something similar to Lab Robe where it reduces MP Cost for Heavy Armor classes and instead use the Proc to make the cost reduction go away for a bit, so it resembles its old Proc while still being updated with the new one, but still.

Yep. The other two would need stat reductions as well, of course, but we don’t need to mention those too much.

The stats are a bit more fair for sure. As for the Procs, the main reason they’d need to be lowered is due to the fact that all the other cores only have one and Locked Reactor has its own, but Entropy Reactor has all of them, and they all have independent cooldowns and chances. Unless you want to combine all of them into a single cooldown, reducing their effectiveness in exchange for the ability to use all of them would be the best way to go about it.

I mean the Mana heal that you get when getting hit in Combat.

Yep.

0.35 at worst, but yeah, that would be good.

The Wis Mod could instead be lowered to around 0.75 instead of 1, as to make it always less effective. Either of these work.

Something like that would work, yeah.

Don’t worry, I was just agreeing with you.

If it’s a bit hard to hit still, something more around 135% would be fine, but it all depends on the difficulty to hit things.

This works.

This would work wonders overall. Hell, it’d give Reikoku a bit of use for the stats as well.

The main issue here is less of the immense Defense, and more of the immense Defense in comparison to other items that give Armored. 90 MP on Jugg vs 150 MP on Prot is not a minor difference, and both of them have Wis Mod now that will generally net them similar durations if they play into Wisdom.

If there’s no added Cooldown, at the very least, adding a bit more of an MP Cost (105 or so) would suffice. I won’t talk much about Marble Seal since that one is a tough case through and through.

That’s a lot better.

50 with a bit less damage per Wisdom would work.

Honestly, just making the damage 80-110 would be good enough. Not enough to make it not worth using, but still enough to not make it replace endgame stuff.

#48
Horn, Lumi, Glad Guard

Horn existing is already a nerf, and there’s really no need to nerf it. Wait wait wait, are you stupid, bruh, I… ITS 10 DEX! TEN DEX! Ok… yeah… and it’s on borrowed time. Horn is literally an exa HP with 5 extra def. That’s… absolutely fucking pathetic for something that drops from O3 himself. A fucking burger king crown is better than… whatever that is. The 10 dex really is not something that you will have all the time, which is why horn is not counted as 1/4 in many servers, and I myself don’t see horn as 1/4… because it isn’t. It’s shit. How many players can actually keep above 90% of their HP for, like, the whole ass dungeon, of say, void, or o3? Well… you can’t. And then you lose the 10 dex because you can’t dodge, and the Horn is just an exa hp with benefits. Horn doesn’t need a nerf, like, at all. If anything, it needs a buff. It’s dogshit.

Again, no. Lumiare is completely fine as is. WHA – NO IT’S NOT! Have you SEEN the thing??? Yes. I have. If you plug Lumi in on a DPS calculator, it completely shits on every other wand in the game, and that is to be expected. It drops from Osanc, a dungeon that is difficult to play, and difficult to access, for most normal casual players at least. But at the same time, the disparity between Lumi and, say, Fallen or Retri, is too big. Lumi is not only a clear cut winner, but a complete fucking alpha, and I understand where your concerns come from, but I want to ask you this: how confident are you in your aim? Because even if you got a computer AI to use the Lumi, I would guarantee you that the accuracy will not be 100%. Lumi’s shots are not easy to aim, and you will not be hitting every single shot, so the advertised DPS is actually way higher than in practice. You might actually get more mileage off of Fallen since you’re going to land more than half the shots you fire with it.

Mercy’s bane on sale in shop for 199 realm gold! Get lucky and it’s yours, mate! Glad guard on sale in shop for 199 realm gold – wait, something’s wrong, I can feel it. Mercy is an ST and so is Zaarvox’s heart (which nobody uses btw). And Glad guard is the armor of the exalted god himself, the corrupted sinner of a divine presence that is Oryx himself. You can’t compare an ST to an endgame UT, because, well, you can literally buy mercy’s bane. But no matter how much money you have, you can’t buy Glad Guard. If you aren’t skilled enough to beat an o3, you won’t get it no matter how much stonks you trade. Glad Guard is an amazing piece of equipment that gives decent defense and offense capabilities to the sword class. It’s an amazing reward for the great heroes of the realm who made the arduous battle in the Sanctuary. It’s not that I don’t agree with the nerf, but seven and five speed… the difference is literally microseconds. The difference is so negligible, that it doesn’t even have to be nerfed.

Vesture, Genesis, Shielding

I know not of a single player who would use a low MP spell just to trigger the proc of Vestment. Not only are they wasting MP, but they could have just used an actual spell and gotten the proc. Why the fuck would anyone use a fire spray spell when they can use a Burning Retribution or SSS or whatever? They’re wasting DPS, being a liability to the party, and just all around look like an absolute pepega.

Now, your suggested rework of the Vesture surprises me so, because you complained about the Mad God’s horn giving 10 dex, and now you want to add 24 ATT on a wizard for pressing spacebar. No, 24 ATT is literally almost 1/3 of the Wizard’s base ATT cap, this won’t be a rework, it will be a massacre. And not only will Tablet wizards massacre every mob in their face, Vestment will also massacre Diplo, who’s proc requires you to get shot for 50 damage… and, well, Vestment will just always be used instead.

Genesis does not need a nerf. Bu… WHAT ARE YOU CRAZY IT DOES TEN THOUSAND – Yeah YEAH I know Genesis does 10K damage. First of all, Genesis does 10K damage. If all portals hit one target and have 100% uptime. Genesis… is really only effective for stationary targets who don’t go invul for long periods of time. You’re probably gonna get more milage with Para spell or Tablet than Genesis most of the time, and most players actually consider Para spell to be the superior spell, so, there you have it, Genesis is NOT OP and does NOT need a nerf.

This is the same argument I have with Glad Guard. You can literally buy a Tenne from the shop. Also, Shielding is not even that OP. You need a priest/pally/ballistic star/lotus, which is not always available for the proc to actually work. Second, the ATT is only there for 3 short seconds. God forbid if it procs during the boss’s invul phase. Whatever am I supposed to do? Yeah no. 12 ATT for 3 seconds with a 6 second cooldown isn’t broken. As a matter of fact, I actually prefer the 100% uptime of tenne’s 16 DPS stats rather than the shaky proc of Shielding. I also think that Shielding has a god awful sprite and it looks like somebody threw up all over some T1 leather armor.

Banner, Pblast

Banner 100% does not need a nerf. Banner is actually not even that good. It’s on equip stats, I actually scoffed at it the first time I saw it, and the proc, I, again, scoffed. Yes, the banner gives damaging. Yes, the banner does damage. No, this is not broken, and no, Paladins are not killed by this item because Banner cannot replace a paladin, and can never. The damaging aura of the banner only works if your banner is placed close enough to an enemy, and if the enemy moves, then that’s pretty much GG. The banner also only gives damaging for players who are close to it, and this only lasts for four seconds, which a max Wis pally with a ZSeal can do the exact same thing. Also the difference between a T7 and T6 seal’s HP buff is literally 10 HP. You can get as much milage from a Gcookie as you can an Invocation. Also, 120/130 extra HP, especially as a side-buff, is always welcome; it’s literally a fucking ParaHP.

Again, your suggested rework suprises me. So if you slap your reworked Vesture and this on a Tablet wizard with 5/5 ATT, they would have 75+5+24+20+5= A WHOPPING 129 ATT. This wizard with these equips and 5/5 DEX will have 75+5+4 = 84 DEX. For a player like yourself, who understands stats and how they work, I find your suggested reworks to be… very surprising.

No. You are both out of your minds. Wizard is already the most damaging character in the entire fucking game. Have you seen the 55 second O3 world record? Yeah. Exalted EP wizards sitting on O3. Now we look at Armor Broken. Who can actually access armor broken? Knights and Assassins, with Ogmur and Pogmur, respectively. Not only are both whites unforgable, but they are also incredibly incredibly rare and on two classes with arguably the worst DPS. And we look at Pblast. A fucking white that is AVAILIBLE IN THE FORGE BY DEFAULT, and, i’m not done, get this, it takes a measly 90 Gold to forge! I know, INSANE! Imagine if wizards had access to armor broken! That would not only break armor, but also the balance of the entire game! Assassins are already USELESS, and pogmur is the ONE thing keeping the class afloat for high level gameplay. Knights are already in a bad spot with more and more things being immune to stun, and access to AB is also something that they hold high above our heads. But oh wait, look at this wizard, he has access to AB, and not only AB, but ON DEMAND INSTANT AB ON CURSOR. AND IT PIERCES TO MULTIPLE TARGETS. Ok ok, calm down (I am), what if… we gave Pblast EXPOSED instead (wink wink). Fuck. No. Giving wizard exposed will just make samurai completely worthless as a class. Also most staves fire 2 shots, so exposed would not mean 20 extra damage, it would be 40.

So… no, there’s really no way to make Pblast good by giving it a simple solution. Spells will always have gaps between projectiles, so a penetrating spell was never a good concept (as evidently shown by the lack of people using Tablet pre buff). An easy way to “fill in the gaps” is to quite literally fill in the gaps. Whenever a main Pblast projectile hits a target, it fires shots perpendicular to it that do the same damage as the main projectile (since the shot is already weak af). The shots aren’t particularly strong, but Pblast isn’t really a damage spell, more of a clearing spell.

#49

Well… I am not the one who is asking for the nerf, Dreamless did.

That dude was complaining that endgame items outstrips their non-endgame counterparts as shown here:

Though I am on the same boat as you… I think buffing early game UT’s would be better than nerfing the endgame UT’s.