Post your unpopular opinions about realm here

#1830

Sure, as one person doing dungeons at their own pace, safety through pure hp rings is great. However, when one can skip or quicken otherwise deadly phases, group dps contributes much more to safety than one’s defensive stats.

Essentially, having an extra 80 hp in a non-dps oriented run is magnitudes less safe than having less hp in a dps-curated run since it skips or quickens dangerous phases. Theyll be a lesser number of projectiles since the phases will be shorter(no need for more hp to tank another shot since theyll be less/no shots to dodge).

Group dps is less synonymous with efficiency now rather than safety.

#1831

no, the only stat that matters is speed. everything else doesn’t matter

#1832

this isn’t quite the same point as the one I was trying to make, that is “I would really rather not be instantly killed by a shotgun or bullet cluster”. this particular angle you describe has been made irrelevant for a very long time ever since pets were introduced, and got even more irrelevant when groups with large numbers of pet-powered priests showed up. rotmg for a long time has been about juggling the rate at which damage goes into your character compared to the rate at which hp goes into your character, rather than things you’d expect like “dodging”. and the only reason this is the case is because things like pets and priests allow for such ridiculously high amounts of hp input compared to damage input. which means the vast majority of deaths in this game don’t come from being slowly bled to death by your inability to dodge, but rather a sudden drop from 75% hp to 0% hp, and boosting hp is the only thing that helps in that situation. incidentally this is also the reason why bosses these days just spit out insane amounts of bullets during their phases, because that’s the rate at which you need to be taking damage in order for you to actually be in any danger.

as for the “but group dps is awesome” angle…

a) outside of tightly controlled raid situations, you have no control over what everyone else uses and the microscopic difference your character’s build makes is even more irrelevant than when playing solo in such a situation
b) most dps raid groups I’m aware of have a list of dps-oriented options rather than a “pick the absolute strongest set you have available or I’ll kick you for dragging us down” mandate, and in such a situation you still have the issue where not one person in the entire raid will notice what weapon you individually have equipped, even if it’s the weakest of the available options, so your choice yet again is still irrelevant
c) I still don’t notice a difference in clear time

before you or any other dps-junkies consider replying, I’d like to state that I have given this position considerable amounts of thought, and I’d also like to reiterate that I understand very few people are actually going to agree with me no matter what I say. but I cannot be convinced that dps investment is actually worth anyone’s time. I understand the concept of “high damage = shorter boss fights = less damage taken”, and frequently abuse it in other games I play, but rotmg has a lot of other mechanical issues that muddy the picture to the point where I can’t tell the difference between the two styles other than one is more susceptible to instakill.

#1833

45 -> 46 is the most important change in ic activation value as it let’s you tank white demon shots and gland lava, and you’re really only going to get that high on a knight.
As far as dex and atk go, for the most part your dps is always already high enough, so really yeah, they’re pretty useless, most items that trade survivability for damage like crown, ogmur, and what not I simply want for rarity value and nothing else, just use it as a flex

#1834

In light of what Xaklor said, I do have to agree.

My understanding:

Investment = an expense of something to get you more of that thing
Dps investment = an expense of time to get dps-oriented gear in order to save time on dungeons/realm completion

Conceptually, I see no flaw. I don’t know in practice but at its core, it is rock-solid.

#1835

Honestly, your weapon/ability choice matter a lot more than your stats in many cases; your def and vit are largely irrelevant if you’re able to do damage from far enough away, wisdom is probably next to worthless depending on the ability you use and neither atk nor dex are useful if your shot pattern is such that you aren’t reliably hitting anything. That leaves you with mp for ability spam, hp for not dying and spd because that is the only stat that matters.

#1836

Funnily enough, you could pretty easily translate those stats into standard bullet hell stats.

HP is how many hits you can take. In most bullet hells, this is only 1.
MP is your shot clearer (or “bomb”) meter.
Speed is still how fast you move.

While bullet hells do tend to have some player-based attacks, these are generally set damage, and powerups tend to just add more shots to your pattern, afaik. Not an ideal comparison for att/dex.
Just an interesting observation I did.

#1837

I prefer LH v2 Meta vs today’s Meta. Was more straight forward and fun to do.

#1838

Guess i cant reply. Oh no.

Do one o3 that takes 40 phases in exalted to die with a tanky set on a knight while leeching(nothing against it; that’s what they call it when somebody does not want to look for damage on a certain o3 phase) and one o3 that takes 10 phases to kill on a wizard with potato and a vesture while looking for dmg in every phase. It’ll be much easier to survive on the wizard, even if you are going deeper on each individual phase.

Its not like I’m trying to completely irrationalize your opinion. Its straight up a noticeable difference in safety while raiding in good groups.

Now, I guess if only you were in a high-dps raid with the tanky set, leeching, I suppose it would be safer. not everyone can do that though, right?

Edit: It is also possible to carry an o3, as long as the group is small enough. Pushing staggers or even just looking for a bit more damage in certain phases is essential, for at the later phases of o3’s, people start to become less confident and look for dmg less often, and by percentage your damage will account for much more than just your base role as a normal participant.

#1839

Let me just say that attack and dexterity do matter a ton. Let’s take an unmaxed wizard vs a maxed one. The average wizard at level 20 has 40 att and 43 dexterity, meaning that you are 67 dps points away from a maxed wizard. That is a HUGE difference. I would show you guys on a dps graph but I’m on mobile rn so I can’t.

#1840

I think the question is not so much if you do it on a wizard or a knight, in which case dps of course makes a huge difference.

If on the other hand you replace the potato with a deca, you have like 10% dps less and need to do 11 instead of 10 phases, but if you mess up the 25% more hp will make the much more important difference between nexusing and getting loot/at least surviving

#1841

Yup! If only you have the deca, the group suffers less and you’ll be comparatively safer.

#1842

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The maxed wizard has twice the dps of the unmaxed wizard.

#1843

actually it makes quite a bit of a difference, 15 atk is a 30% (additive) bonus to DPS.

going from 50 -> 65 atk would make your damage bonus go from 150% -> 180%, or a 20% multiplicative damage bonus.

going from 75 -> 90 atk would make your damage bonus go from 200% -> 230%, or a 15% multiplicative damage bonus

#1844

its horrible now that t15 armor existed… maybe back in 2015 or something when t14 didnt even exist. But now its just 2 more def for a loss of 10 dex…

#1845

Dude, you are replying to a post from 2+ years ago.

#1846

Yep, a maxed character will have wayyyy more dps than an unmaxed one.

#1847

I think you might have missed this line

#1848

I still think that Candy Coated is worthwhile. It still has the highest defense, even if it is just 2, I don’t have and probably will never get t15 or t14 and I’m willing to take the cost of a tiny bit of dex

#1849

The point @Xaklor’s (yes I’m tagging you) making, though, is that you tend not to really notice the difference.
Yes, 15 attack is a lot, but then you’re already on a pretty DPS-heavy character.

I think a better example would be to say the difference between using, say, Nile versus UBHP. Yeah, Nile gives you 4 spd and dex, but you don’t really notice those too much in just casual playing.

From my view, I do believe that there are specific cases where it is noticable, but those are generally solo situations; one that I find particularly noticable is Limon. Farming dexterity from her is, for me, a pretty decent indicator of how much dps I have.
If I can kill her without needing to repeat the jumpy phase, or can get her just at the stat of it, or end the fight right as the helpers die - all those bits of progression are indicators, to me, that my DPS has risen.

Now, that only occurs when I’m still maxing a character. Those stat changes, that gradual build up of dex, doesn’t really happen for maxed characters. If I weren’t keen on noticing the slight boost given to me in terms of speed from my Honey Circlet, I wouldn’t be using it; and even then, when racing against another class with probably just 2-3 less speed, that’s where I begin to notice that…there’s not that much of a difference.

tl;dr tiny stat changes from equips are near unnoticable, RotMG’s stat calculation system should probably bee looked into, why am I typing out 20 mile paragraphs.