With this change, we can finally see vitmod being placed into effect because warrior and knight have been fairly effectively subdued (if it was up to me, i would nerf the warrior even more but whatevs) and make samurai and ninja, with 60 base vit each, along with ggarments, +7 vit, actually useful
[Spoilers] Melee Nerfs, Warrior ST Rework, Endless Torment Updated and more
Hemming
#42
Really not happy about this proposed nerf to damaging and berserk for a few reasons
- (low hanging fruit) As mentioned already, this affects everything in the game that currently uses damaging or berserk, not just melee. Theyāre all going to have to be manually changed or youāll end up nerfing Mystic.
- Nerfing both damaging and berserk at the same time reduces group DPS from 2.25x to 1.44x, 64% of the old values. This is going to make HP scaled dungeons feel even more like a slog than they already do, unless you go through every HP scaled enemy in the game and rebalance their scaling (or better yet, remove it).
- Reducing the effects to 1.2x brings up the question of ease of application. Curse is trivial to apply to enemies and it grants the same 20% damage increase. Damaging is also pretty easy to apply because high tiered seals have massive AOE. But berserk? Everyone has to be very, very close to the warrior to get it, and I donāt believe 20% is enough of a DPS increase to warrant it. Warrior already feels really bad to try to buff the group, but with such a small increase itās not going to be worth it
- Nerfing Damaging is a buff to Weak. Because Damaging modifies your weapon DPS itās the only way to deal more damage during weakness, and I already donāt like how little counterplay most status effects have.
Necro skull nerf is pointless, itās so stupidly rare that youāll never see it and itās not even that good as it is.
Stun nerf is okay, but you MUST, MUST, MUST make it clear when the stunās going to wear off, and when it can be reapplied. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS otherwise the effect is going to be 100% worthless, especially at bosses like oryx 2 where if you fuck up regarding stuns you will die instantly.
Xaklor
#43
thatās not true afaik, weak undoes damaging entirely like daze undoes berserk. and even if damaging does do something through weakness, berserk and curse still work just fine while youāre weakened so itās definitely not āthe only way to deal more damage during weaknessā. donāt see the problem that one, and even if it is one just dodge.
EonicLord
#44
Some people are saying RIP warrior, but the dps disparity remains the same, the class still will dish out the most damage and remain top dog along with Knight crawling up the ranks. I think Pally will still be a fine choice, so in the end all we have is a group dps nerf which will presumably extended the time of Lost halls runs which leads to less loot resulting is less keys bought outside events. (On that last part Iām not even sure Iām joking or notā¦)
Hemming
#48
Weak does not undo damaging, please stop spreading this misinformation. I see it constantly, even on the wiki, and itās wrong. Try it yourself in the highlands with a paladin, thereās an abundance of dark elves that will weak you for free.
OlMen
#50
I welcome a nerf to Warriorās dps, and general group dps. I feel warrior is a bit too powerful, and group run dungeons are too easy (Lost Halls).
With that I can support a Paladin seal nerf, but I donāt think it deserves to be as heavily nerfed as warrior.
However, mystic and necromancer solo play being nerfed by this makes little sense to me. Iād much rather not have the damaging/berserk nerfs at all if thatās the case.
A nerf specific to warrior, Paladin, and group dps would be what Iād like to see. A sword nerf, or only nerfing Helms and Seals.
I see DECA is aiming for some kind of consistency with the changes, but they have been willing to be inconsistent before with the Bloody Cloak (and new Tome of Furor) applied buffs.
Please choose to not accept nerfing mystic and necromancer as a side effect of targeting other classes. I think they are already great as is in solo play.
DemiPony
#51
Everybody needs to stop whistle blowing over Mystic and ST skull/Conflict. Yes, DECA is tinkering with melee buffs in an effort to balance them. No, these changes are not set in stone nor do they reflect a finished product. I 100% guarantee if this were to go through theyād change Orbs & ST Skull/Conflict to give +Dex/Atk in a similar fashion to Bloody Cloak. Why would they need to have this change put in a test build focused around melees? They donāt. Calm down and talk about melees.
From the way half these posts read itās almost like itās a bunch of warriors trying to use mystic as an excuse to not nerf the ridiculous dmg of melees. Balance doesnāt work that way when you can do literally anything you want to the game, all these non-existent mystics are NOT going to be indirectly nerfed. Please go post about why your Warrior should deal 5x the dmg of a priest because āchange is scaryā.
On the topic of the nerfs themselves, itās not even that extreme. Once again itās a nerf focused on reducing group dmg. Whatās wrong with that? Are people really so adverse to playing the game that they get up in arms over having to shoot a boss for 5 seconds instead of 2 seconds? I doubt this will even be the last change DECA does. They seem really invested in totally revamping the gameās meta this MotMG, and Iām really excited to see whatās in store. Who cares if your warrior shoots slower than before when it gets a whole new mechanic instead? Calm down, breathe, donāt look at numbers or stare at graphs, just take things in stride and evolve, adapt, and overcome.
Nevov
#52
Itās difficult to judge outcomes when lots of things change at the same time. I wish theyād do such things incrementally.
The buffs: I like them being quite high effect, since it means you are relatively punished more for not being a mixed party. Take that away and why bother coordinating if itās only a minor increase. I like the idea @Mynamerr said to maybe move the party buffs on some new classes (but ofc I like any idea if it gives more classesā¦). But maybe 1.2x will still be fine. Who knows, Iāve never tried it.
Itās also difficult to judge when we donāt know why the changes are being done. Is it to cause people to choose swords less than now? To reduce steamroll/group DPS? To rebalance pala/warrior vs knight? To rebalance berzerk/dmging vs curse/exposed? Each goal would have a different way of achieving it (eg. could keep sealās dmging on self at 1.5x but party effect lower to 1.2x, could simply reduce/increase max ATT/DEX stats of the class). What about the +HP from seal (which is probably the main thing unbalancing pala vs the other swords). Etc.
I think I just yearn for the days when theyād simply change things, no warning, weād have a Dev message āHi game, we think X is too powerful/drop rate too high/too easy/too tough so weāve changed it, see what you thinkā. Not this supertanker approach where things take months to happen. Let us have a try and we can give true feedback (ahem testing!), then push it out knowing itās a good change.
I might sound like Iām anti-change, I really am not, itās just frustrating how some of the things that are really affecting the game (HP Scale) more than anything else, seemingly isnāt being revisited.
Vilethorn
#53
For the record I was referring to public dungeons and realms (where the average pala count at least on EUW is 1) not organised pops which will obviously min-max their set-ups.
Dhanorocks
#54
Thatās really a subject of another topic, that unorganised pub halls are very unsuccessful.
Tele
#55
I think I just yearn for the days when theyād simply change things, no warning
I agree wholeheartedly, Iād even venture that these kinds of āleakā posts are harmful to the production of meaningful change. Of course people are against change, itās only natural; however it must be considered that those against any particular change are going to be the most vocal. Giving them a platform to shout down changes (that are neither complete nor final!) gives both the community and the developers a biased impression of what the community thinks of balance changes.
Just push it through to testing! Itās sad that the sword nerfs never made it to testing, hopefully not because of public backlash from the āleakā. I donāt side with any particular belief about the melees but its a shame that those changes didnāt make it even for the sake of ruling them out - āI guess we nerfed melees too hard, now we can consider other viable ways of shifting power aroundā. This kind of discussion is not only healthy, but refreshing for the game.
I feel like no one reads Niegelās āvery subject to changeā pre-text. 
TokinBud
#57
About damn time the -10 def is gone, always thought that was a ridiculous amount of def to LOSE. And as far as the shots being added with full set, thatās pretty cool. BUT, nerfing damaging and berserk is pretty lame. Thatās not gonna go over too well.
Starwartwo
#60
Maybe if the testing servers were up more and there were of a constant presence on the server, and changes were implemented on there (and testing were more long term before actually implementing the changes), these changes would seem less jarring and odd.