Balance Changes & Dungeon Cap Update [X.32.7.0]

[Unicorn]

xpost from https://www.reddit.com/r/RotMG/comments/f9sm8y/balance_changes_dungeon_cap_update/

Hello everyone,

In this release, we have several noteworthy balance changes. Mainly, a revision of tiered abilities and certain tiered weapons/armor (a version of which was on public testing here), and the implementation of lower dungeon player caps that are now actually enforced, instead of being easily broken by entering a portal at once.

We realize balance changes can be cause for concern for players of all kinds, from casual beginners who are just getting familiar with the game’s systems, to veteran players who have optimized the game’s set of rules to routinely tackle endgame content. Because of this, we wanted to take the time to not just lay out the changes themselves, but explain the rationale behind them.

Tiered Item Changes

Let’s start with the equipment changes. There are three facets to this: Tiered ability rescaling, top tier weapon/armor rescaling, and drop rate/location changes.

Tiered Ability Rescaling

Cloaks

Tier	MP	Range Boost	DEX/SPD
0	55	2.5	0/0
1	60	3	0/0
2	65	3.5	0/3
3	70	4	0/5
4	75	4.5	3/5
5	80	5	4/5
6	85	5.5	5/5

Quivers

Tier	MP	Damage	DEX
0	45	60-100 (80)	0
1	50	100-140 (120)	1
2	55	140-180 (160)	2
3	60	180-220 (200)	3
4	65	200-280 (240)	4
5	70	250-310 (280)	5
6	75	290-350 (320)	6

Spells

Tier	Shot Damage	Total Damage	WIS
0	15-20 (17.5)	300-400 (350)	0
1	30-40 (35)	600-800 (700)	1
2	40-65 (52.5)	800-1300 (1050)	2
3	50-90 (70)	1000-1800 (1400)	3
4	60-115 (87.5)	1200-2300 (1750)	4
5	70-140 (105)	1400-2800 (2100)	5
6	80-165 (122.5)	1600-3300 (2450)	6

Tomes

Tier	VIT
0	0
1	1
2	2
3	3
4	4
5	5
6	6

Helms

Tier	MP	Duration	DEF
0	55	3	2
1	60	3.5	3
2	65	4	4
3	70	4.5	5
4	75	5	6
5	80	5.5	8
6	85	6	10

Shields

Tier	MP	Shots	Damage	DEF
0	85	1	55-90 (72.5)	2
1	85	2	100-140 (240)	3
2	90	3	150-190 (510)	4
3	90	3	190-240 (645)	6
4	95	4	230-280 (1020)	8
5	95	4	270-330 (1200)	10
6	100	5	300-360 (1650)	12

Seals

Tier	DEX
0	0
1	0
2	2
3	2
4	3
5	3
6	4

Poisons

Tier	MP	Radius	DoT	Impact	Duration	WIS
0	25	2	100	20	3	0
1	40	2.5	200	50	3.2	1
2	55	3	300	80	3.5	1
3	70	3.5	400	110	3.7	2
4	80	4	500	140	4	2
5	90	4.5	600	170	4.3	3
6	100	5	700	200	4.5	3

Skulls

Tier	MP	Heal
0	40	35
1	50	45
2	70	65
3	85	90
4	100	100
5	110	105
6	115	110

Traps

Tier	MP	Damage	Radius	ATT
0	40	60	3.5	0
1	50	95	4	0
2	60	140	4.5	0
3	75	200	5	2
4	90	260	5.5	3
5	100	300	6	4
6	105	350	6.5	5

Orbs

Tier	MP	VIT
0	60	0
1	65	0
2	70	0
3	75	1
4	80	2
5	85	3
6	90	4

Prisms

Tier	MP	Duration	WIS
0	60	3	0
1	65	4	1
2	70	5	2
3	75	6	3
4	80	7	4
5	85	8	5
6	90	9	6

Scepters

Tier	MP	SPD
0	30	0
1	40	0
2	50	0
3	60	0
4	70	1
5	80	2
6	90	3

Stars

Tier	MP	Range	VIT
0	30	15	0
1	40	15	3
2	50	15	3
3	60	15	6
4	70	15	6
5	80	15	9
6	90	15	9

Wakizashis

Tier	MP	Shots	Damage	DEX
0	40	2	150-250 (400)	0
1	50	2	250-350 (600)	1
2	60	3	200-300 (750)	2
3	65	3	300-400 (1050)	3
4	70	4	250-350 (1200)	4
5	75	4	300-450 (1500)	5
6	80	4	400-500 (1800)	6

In case you missed the public testing session, most tiered abilities have received adjustments to streamline the progression from T0 to T6 while maintaining balance at T6. With Oryx 3 on the horizon and the introduction of T7 abilities, T14 weapons, and T15 armors, the unusual history of T6 abilities became problematic. As you may already know, the majority of T6 abilities are statistical duplicates of T5s, with the very minor addition of +2 VIT and WIS (these bonuses have been replaced universally with +20 HP and +20 MP). If T7s were introduced while ignoring this, T6 would become a largely useless step.

Previous class ability rebalances, such as scepters and traps, have adjusted these over time, but several instances remained. We wanted to take this opportunity to make the step from T5 to T6 a meaningful step across the board, while correcting a handful of other minor inconsistencies along the way. Very few of these changes are drastic enough to have significant impact on your choice of ability (as T6 itself has remained almost entirely the same to keep them on the level UTs are balanced around), but this does make T5s a less desirable substitute.

Top Tier Weapon/Armor Rescaling

T13 Weapons and T14 Armor Revisions

• T14 Armors

T13 Robe: +55 MP, +4 ATT, +13 DEF, +6 WIS

T14 Robe: +60 MP, +4 ATT, +14 DEF, +7 WIS -> +65 MP, +5 ATT, +15 DEF, +7 WIS

T15 Robe: +65 MP, +4 ATT, +15 DEF, +7 WIS -> +75 MP, +6 ATT, +17 DEF, +8 WIS

T13 Leather: +17 DEF, +5 DEX

T14 Leather: +18 DEF, +5 DEX -> +19 DEF, +6 DEX

T15 Leather: +19 DEF, +5 DEX -> +21 DEF, +7 DEX

T13 Heavy: +24 DEF

T14 Heavy: +25 DEF -> +26 DEF

T15 Heavy: +26 DEF -> +28 DEF

• T13 Weapons

T12 Staff: 60-100 (80)

T13 Staff: 60-105 (82.5) -> 65-110 (87.5)

T14 Staff: 65-105 (85) -> 75-115 (95)

T12 Wand: 95-140 (117.5)

T13 Wand: 100-140 (120) -> 105-145 (125)

T14 Wand: 100-145 (122.5) -> 110-155 (132.5)

T12 Bow: 50-75 (62.5)

T13 Bow: 55-75 (65) -> 60-80 (70)

T14 Bow: 55-80 (67.5) -> 70-85 (77.5)

T12 Dagger: 95-175 (135)

T13 Dagger: 95-180 (137.5) -> 110-190 (150)

T14 Dagger: 100-180 (140) -> 125-205 (165)

T12 Sword: 220-275 (247.5)

T13 Sword: 225-280 (252.5) -> 235-290 (262.5)

T14 Sword: 230-285 (257.5) -> 250-305 (277.5)

T12 Katana: 135-180 (157.5)

T13 Katana: 145-185 (165) -> 150-195 (172.5)

T14 Katana: 150-190 (170) -> 165-210 (187.5)

Other

Armor of Nil: +21 DEF, -2 SPD -> +24 DEF -4 SPD

Ritual Robe: +10 DEF, +5 ATT, +15 WIS, +40 MP -> +12 DEF +5 ATT +15 WIS +50 MP

Breastplate of New Life: +160 HP, +12 DEF -> +160 HP, +14 DEF

All Non-HP/MP T6 Rings: +9 -> +10

Post-WC top weapons and armors now also share a bigger distinction from the previous tier. This is primarily done to make the next two tiers of tops have a more noticeable impact on your character, rather than being a very slight increment and merely greater bragging rights. This makes them more competitive with certain UTs (with a few endgame UT adjustments accordingly) and a desirable upgrade from the comparatively much more common WC tops, making them a better match of rarity vs. value.

Drop Rate/Location Changes

• WC tops have been removed from all sources except for the Wine Cellar itself and the Shatters.

Specifically, the removals are from the Woodland Labyrinth, Deadwater Docks, Crawling Depths, Ice Cave, and Lost Halls/Cultist Hideout/Void (though the Cultist Hideout maintains unbound rings as a drop). That last one may stick out. However, it should be noted that this also comes with a dramatic buff in the drop rates of T13 weapons and T14 armors from their respective sources. Many have been doubled and some even as much as tripled, in an effort to keep WC tops economically valuable within their level while ensuring the loot from endgame dungeons is more in line with what an endgame player is looking for.

• Over 50 UTs have had their drop rates buffed from all sources. Specifically:
  • Orb of Sweet Demise
  • Wand of the Bulwark
  • Candy-Coated Armor
  • Scepter of Fulmination
  • Wand of the Fallen
  • Orb of Aether
  • Recurring Terror Spell
  • Scepter of Devastation
  • Tome of Pain
  • Harlequin Armor
  • Prism of Dancing Swords
  • Void Blade
  • Murky Toxin
  • Ghostly Prism
  • Soul’s Guidance
  • Plague Poison
  • Resurrected Warrior’s Armor
  • Leaf Dragon Hide Armor
  • Water Dragon Silk Robe
  • Fire Dragon Battle Armor
  • Celestial Blade
  • Midnight Star
  • Wakizashi of Eastern Winds
  • Wakizashi of Crossing Fires
  • Skull of Endless Torment
  • Prism of Dire Instability
  • Sealed Crystal Skull
  • Penetrating Blast Spell
  • Cnidaria Rod
  • Bottled Medusozoan
  • Hivemaster Helm
  • Fungal Breastplate
  • Crystal Shield
  • Crystallised Mist
  • Echoes Prism
  • Refraction Cloak
  • Fractured Gemstone Wakizashi
  • Star of Enlightenment
  • Bracer of the Guardian
  • The Twilight Gemstone
  • The Forgotten Crown
  • Sword of the Colossus
  • Marble Seal
  • Breastplate of New Life
  • Magical Lodestone
  • Staff of Unholy Sacrifice
  • Skull of Corrupted Souls
  • Ritual Robe
  • Bloodshed Ring
  • Bow of the Void
  • Quiver of the Shadows
  • Armor of Nil
  • Sourcestone
  • Omnipotence Ring

These changes correct many historical inconsistencies, taking into account more factors such as the length a dungeon takes to complete on average (Shatters UTs in particular being a major example). These adjustments should result in a generally more rewarding experience across the game, with less “outlier whites” such as Bulwark feeling far rarer than they have a reason to be. This has also partially been done to balance out the effects of the new dungeon cap system, which will be mentioned a little later in this letter.

• Potion drop changes

Lastly, potion drops in endgame dungeons (Lost Halls, the Nest, and both stages of the Abandoned Mineshaft) have been tweaked to create less guaranteed drops and avoid completely flooding large masses of players from all getting several potions. This has been done in the interest of making sure the maxing process does not become overly efficient to those who run these dungeons frequently and allow dungeons like the Ocean Trench and Tomb to remain viable, while also aiming to restore some trading value to such potions.

We realize this may be alarming to some who have become accustomed to large endgame “raids” with mass payouts. However, the changes are not as severe as you may fear. In fact, some of the rates have even been mildly buffed. This change is primarily to help moderate the influx of potions without stripping endgame dungeons of expected loot. So rather than a group of 10 players getting 20 potions and a group of 85 players getting nearly 200 potions cumulatively, the results are more likely to even out at a spot that rewards adequately, but without sending an extreme amount of potions into the overall game. This disproportion leads directly into the final significant change.

Dungeon Cap changed from 85 to 65 players.

Most experienced players are likely familiar with the player limit on dungeons, or more specifically, its ineffectiveness. Though a player limit has always existed on dungeons, it has historically been easily bypassed by simply entering a portal within the same few seconds. This has led to two major problems: Performance and balance.

On the technical side, fitting far more players onto a single map than expected creates problems. One of the most common sources of lag and other performance issues is having an overwhelming amount of players occupying the same limited space. While huge spaces like the realm are built for this, most dungeons are not.

From a gameplay perspective, the lack of real player caps also creates fundamental design problems. Even with scaling measures, virtually no content is built to be able to face off against 100+ players. Such huge mobs can make even the game’s toughest challenges much easier than intended, which ultimately makes for a less interesting and engaging gameplay experience over time.

We feel the game has a responsibility of both fun and stability, which is why we have fixed this long-lasting issue to properly cap dungeons. The default limit has now been placed at 65 for the time being, with a few exceptions based on previous limits (such as heroic dungeons being at 15, and alien wormholes at 25). For dungeons opened by keys, the host is also guaranteed a spot in the dungeon.

We understand that such changes may be worrying to some players, as this can indirectly result in higher difficulty for endgame content that can be handily steamrolled with larger groups, which will no longer be quite as possible. That said, we do believe that these are healthy changes in the interest of balance, long term gameplay enjoyment, and even trading viability.

We will be very closely watching the in-game impact these changes have, both in the immediate future and over some time as things settle and adapt. Some of these are certainly more impactful than others, and there will likely be some points of contention. We want to stress that none of these changes have been done without long, thorough consideration for the effects they will have. We hope that this letter has given you some insight on our rationale for such changes, and why we believe they are essential actions for the game’s future.

Misc

• New Skins
• Fixed dye mask on the Dante Trickster of the Abyss Skin
• Valentine’s Heart quest portrait and chat messages will no longer be displayed
• Beer God is now permanent in the Realm
• Deactivated Masks effects

[Unicorn]

Wand of the Bulwark

@Kalitaio

[DJANCOK]

Deactivated Masks effects

nooooooooooo

[Nevov]

(moved into #news:developers-corner)

---

Patch Notes graphic from the main menu:

[JimdaFish]

This update makes me very happy; potentially lower pot drop rates from LH? Ability tier progression that doesn’t leave some items way more useful than others? A market that isn’t completely flooded with WC tops? All good news to me.

[Seelpit]

Just gonna %-post my comment on the reddit post here.

So…no explanation on why the additional stat boni were added?

Well, from what I understood:

• Spells: wisdom to give a little more spammability.
• Tomes: vitality to give a tiny tad more self-survivability outside of the tome.
• Seals: dexterity to aid Pally’s otherwise lackluster amount (but then OOC happens and we get 59 dex pallies)
• Poisons: wisdom to give a little more spammability, again.
• Orbs: vitality because Toastrz is biased to give her a tad more of a survivable role. I guess. Orb rework when.
• Prisms: wisdom, again, because…spammability.
• Scepters: speed to give sorcerer juuust a bit more of a speedy feel.
• Stars: vitality to aid survivability, which helps since, y’know, 4.75 range. Also 69 vit, nice.
• Wakis: dexterity to aid Samurai’s otherwise lackluster amount.

Edit: also, T6 skull now gives 90 HP. UBDef is now even more viable! Wahaha!

[Mynamerr]

I love the drop rates being raised

I’m also looking forward to dominions and t13 weapons not being rarer than white bags anymore

I’m a bit indifferent about the tiered weapon and armor changes, on the one hand I like that the weapons are more than just infinitesimal better reskins, on the other hand I think it messes with the UT balance and contributes to power creep.
Maybe Deca should have nerfed the t8-t12 weapons by one tier and kept the difference between t12 and t13 (e.g staves would go t12: 80->77.5 and t13:87.5->85).

The choices of the extra stats on the abilities don’t make sense imo: 90% of the players use a ≥rare pet, so vit and wis are almost entirely meaningless, even on most classes with wis mod. So it would have made sense to give vit/wis to classes that are already strong and other stats to those that aren’t played so often.
But Deca gave the paladin, the argueably strongest class currently, a dex buff, whereas the assassin, which really needs a bit of love, only gets wis.

I also hope that Deca doesn’t cave in to the potential negative feedback to the cap change.

[Seelpit]

But Deca gave the paladin, the argueably strongest class currently, a dex buff, whereas the assassin, which really needs a bit of love, only gets wis.

OOC, dearest namer of thine. OOC.
^{Or just a standalone assassin change.}

[ChaosgameX]

Danm imagine getting a omni before a bulwark couldnt be meeeeeee

[PieXF]

Wait so do loot tier potions still work in getting tops for other locations or no

[Xaklor]

Wait so do loot tier potions still work in getting tops for other locations or no

I imagine this will be the final nail in the loot tier potion’s coffin. a loot tier potion can boost a tiered item tier by up to 3 tiers, but it can’t make items drop from places they normally don’t, meaning that it can only effectively boost up to the max tier that’s normally droppable by the thing you’re fighting. so if you’re fighting O2 and you get a T11 weapon as a drop, the tier potion can turn it into a T12 weapon but not a T13. similarly, if you get a T11 weapon from a mad lab, the potion can’t turn it into a T12. before this patch they were pretty much only ever used in LH to boost WC tops into LH tops to help with the miserable LH top’s drop rates, but if there’s no more WC tops in LH anymore then there’s nothing to boost. I can’t imagine what anyone would use the potions for now, the only thing that comes to mind is O2, but tops are so common from him and so cheap from other players it probably won’t change things much for you.

The choices of the extra stats on the abilities don’t make sense imo

I agree. iirc the changes were supposed to “give classes more identity” with their tiered abilities, but it looks like they gave only a couple classes interesting stats while slapping vit and wis on everyone else. that doesn’t seem to match up with the supposed reasoning behind it since half the classes have the same stat bonuses as each other, all of which make zero difference at all. they didn’t even give the wis bonuses to the classes that have a wismod on their ability, which are the only ones for which wis matters at all.

[MeleeMan]

I can’t imagine what anyone would use the potions for now, the only thing that comes to mind is O2, but tops are so common from him and so cheap from other players it probably won’t change things much for you.

Oryx 3 says Hi

[Xaklor]

Oryx 3 says Hi

you know what, you’re right. next time I decide to go fight O3 I will remember to bring loot tier potions for sure

[Seelpit]

I imagine this will be the final nail in the loot tier potion’s coffin.

In which case this one idea from the feedback channel might bee the vampire that brings it back from the dead:

Stuff Which Arrives Post Unity (Maybe)

• Loot tier potions grant a chance to transform pots into their greater variants

^{Admittedly this’ll only come way after Unity gets released, probably…}

but it looks like they gave only a couple classes interesting stats while slapping vit and wis on everyone else.

For Spells it makes some sense, at least - lil’ extra spammability.
Though I personally found it rather weird that an item would boost itself when equipped, kinda leaves you wondering “wait but it said it did 400 when hovered over but it actually deals 408?”
…or, uh, somefin like that. It just kinda feels more natural to have to rely on other equips in order to maximize your own playstyle, and otherwise the base amount of damage on the weapon could bee increased rather than giving it a loose multiplier.
That said I guess this does mean that all those UT Scepters with +2 wisdom will now seem a lil’ stronger, huh…
^{Though I defs agree with the main point, just going w boring wis and vit on classes that could’ve gotten something cooler…speed on prisms, att on poisons, dexterity on orbs- wait, hol up, OOC already does that.}

[Hemming]

Nest didn’t need the potion nerf, very few people run it outside of events anyway. Everything else is okay.

[HorusKane]

Tiered Item Changes

fuck yeah

Top Tier Weapon/Armor Rescaling

fuck yeah

Over 50 UTs have had their drop rates buffed from all sources.

both FUCK YEAH! and disappointing, dungeons have more white drops but I feel that event whites are the ones that really needed a boost

hopefully we see a change to that, as running the realm is pretty much my favourite activity in prod.

atleast the top item drop rate boost will get me to actually run LH

[flos]

first lh after buff to drop rates

very intrigued to see how many more omnis there will be on players

[Kalitaio]

Hearing this news… it gives me hope

[CandyShi]

before this patch they were pretty much only ever used in LH to boost WC tops into LH tops to help with the miserable LH top’s drop rates, b

Loot tiers never affected LH tops (or at least I’m pretty sure they never did).

That’s why they were garbage.

[Backpedal]

OOC, dearest namer of thine. OOC.
Or just a standalone assassin change.

OOC? Out of Combat?

It’s delusional to think that cutting divine pets down to rare would possibly help a class so heavily reliant on mana.

As usual Seelpit just likes everything Deca does that nerfs.

My first impressions of the update are bad. The idea to limit the player cap is a vacuum decision that seems good on paper, but it’s just not going to solve problems.

1. Pub Halls. I saw plenty of players swarm to get into lost halls only to become upset that they didn’t make it in. Deca shouldn’t underestimate the frustration factor and a lot of the players may just decide to log off when they were faced with the frustration. In addition, the one void I made it into (which was a big challenge) ended up failing. I anticipate this will be an issue going forward and the discords may need to actively screen out players to ensure runs go smoothly.

There’s a lot that remains to be seen. The amount of players jumping out of discord and going into realms doesn’t appear to have changed as a result of the update. In addition, events in ROTMG have long needed some tweaking. It is possible the dungeon cap will make people frustrated and log off rather than try and participate in events.

Ultimately, I think ROTMG needs more players. Cutting down the amount of players participating in activities is a tactical decision that is very difficult to execute.

It’s not unreasonable for a player to become frustrated with zooming into a bazaar at the speed of light. That player becomes frustrated and doesn’t do halls. Eventually the player stops playing.

The problem is the discord overlord has grown so big that cutting it down will result in hard feelings. There’s really no great way to tackle this issue.

It would be nice if people were willing to do sentry halls but the culture of realm is so discord centered now I just have to say that this will be an overall negative change.