Do you like the planned sword nerf?

#219

Frick

#220

It is great with the helm as it gives berserk a do’s increase for a short time, but I have a good magic heal pet so it balances

#221

When compared to other swords on a berserk warrior, Indomptable loses out to just about everything. The only time it loses out is to pixie at high def (a place pixie is notorious for being bad) and csword at even higher def. And when a sword can barely outdamage a csword… That says something. Even with piercing, it’s a pretty bad item.

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#222

DPS graphs never do rightful service to pierce, while overvaluing hitting all shots on multishot weapons, doing a double whammy to visually underrep Indompt.

If due to being far away you are only partially hitting with Pixie/Dblade. the DPS drops way down.

But if due to pierce you can hit 2+ enemies, you are running with 2x the DPS, or more.
Imagine Indomptible’s black line raised up to begin at over 5000, and that’s why the item has worth. If you are able to hit two or more enemies there is no better sword. (But that is a mighty big ‘IF’.) An entirely situational item: it can be either great or terrible depending on what you’re fighting.

(Side thought @Pfiffel, the DPS charts could represent multishots better, by having additional fainter lines to rep partial hits, so eg. Pixie would have the high line for ‘all 4’, and then three lesser lines for 3, 2, 1 hits. Toggleable off/on? :pray::blush: )

Edit: made the IF bigger.

#223

This is true, but remember that, even with piercing, Indomptable still has numerous disadvantages when it comes to getting in dps: slow shot speed makes hitting stuff very difficult, and low RoF means that any missed shots will significantly lower your dps. In addition, the -10 def makes getting close dangerous, limiting the time the player has to even have the chance of damaging the target.

That being said, I do think it would be cool to add in those lines, just to see how multishot swords would fare.

#224

Yeah, vs castle walls and in O1’s big balls phase are about the only times I regularly use it. Tried doing it with drag+kiting gods, so they group up and follow you, letting you hit them all, but that really didn’t seem worth the effort. Bellas when the moving enemies group up too, though only did that once. Very niche use.

Edit: further reading: The point of Indomptable · Indomptable: not as good as was thought?

#225

Do you think there will be a big change in melee classes?
do you think the nerf is good? what’s your opinion?
So melee class will be balanced now and it will not be very op now?

Ps:(Sorry for my bad grammar)

[Edit: merged post and replies onto the earlier topic. -Nevov]

#226

I actually think it’s a buff. Swords still will have rediculous damage and the higher shot speed will help newbies.

#227

Personally, I don’t care that much as I don’t use tiered swords much, I’m really blind when it comes to noticing DPS, and that I just wanna look at all the sprites in Realm.

#228

so what i understand is only the tiered swords got nerfed, not ut/st? in that case it doesnt really change anything since cutlass is the best sword anyways.

#229

After raging myself in my thoughts about the nerf, I came to the conclusion that even thought reducing damage is kinda stupid, it is also pointless, since it won’t reduce the amount of time I will play with melees at all. Also, Melees are still the best classes for any content, because of the buffs/stun/armor break they provide (also they can rush too, when needed). So I guess neither other players that already use melees a lot will reduce the playing time with them.
This nerf just makes the game a tiny bit more slower for melees. Maybe that can be called balancing.

Also, this only applies to tiered swords, not ut/st as already said by other players.

#230

BiIgewater, you are a little bit biased, haha. But I still want your sword for the op 83 speed on my Paladin. So please, give it to me, haha.

#231

is this some kind of pre April fools joke?
WHY
WHY
Although, i don’t like melee but i have a 8/8 pally, 8/8 jugg crown warrior and, 7/8 knight

#232

Take a step back and ask yourself if you’re being a reactionary conservative who’s afraid of change. Done? Alright. Nerfing swords is an interesting decision alright. When you stop to consider what will happen as a result then the nerf’s intentions become clear.

This sort of nerf will NOT be felt on an individual level. All 3 melees have extremely high dmg, all 3 of which are only further augmented by their abilities. A decent nerf such as the proposed (not final) testing value is not going to destroy the classes or their identity or your insane knight ppe. What will this nerf do then?

This sort of nerf will be amazing in terms of group play. A dmg nerf of 400 dps scaled up to 20 melee players multiplied by a 30 second encounter is 240,000 less dmg dealt in that timespan. This is amazing in terms of reducing steamrolling. Imagine you design content for RotMG only for everything to die in seconds due to everyone playing the highest dmg classes. You try hp scaling, boss invulnerability, dungeon limits, but nothing is preventing your content from being decimated. This nerf will be great for the general health of the game, as it not only bridges the gap between weapon types but it also increases the amount of gameplay and challenge we experience while playing. It’s not all that should be done, however.

A simple dmg nerf alone is not the final answer in my opinion. More action needs to be taken, and I believe DECA understands this. In the same leak we also saw Daggers & Katanas being buffed, bringing them in line with the nerfed swords but not overall better. This is a great set of changes that’ll encourage class diversity and improve the longevity of content. What else can be done?

HP scaling can be changed to consider weapon type, as a wand does not contribute as much as a staff or sword.

Encounters can be designed to have challenges that don’t include simply damaging a boss, such as Thicket’s survival phase or Reef’s orange jellies.

Berserk and Damaging as buffs can be redesigned to grant less dmg but instead more utility, encouraging players to also bring Samurai for exposed and Mystic for cursed if they want more group damage.

I’m pretty excited for change, especially controversial change. The game has been stagnant for so long. Why settle for the same when we have active developers who want to breathe life into the game? DECA must be terrified of doing anything for fear of backlash from the very vocal minority.

#233

alright… Cdirks average damage is 190, w/ a 90% RoF, so lets say it has ~=~ 171 damage per shot. A foul under these changes that Niegil leaked here gets a range of 95-215, an average of 155, and 1.1 more range than our aforementioned cdirk. Emmy (yes, emmy) would become a direct upgrade to a spirit dagger (85-205), and every dagger after it has both more range and more damage. The only daggers that would still be considerably ahead of tiered drops would be etherite, which is still in a very good place, and ripper, which, I imagine, is the only reason people aren’t complaining about etherite, and it doesn’t even have so much as a decrease in range. You, and everyone else, is insane if you think they’d implement the katana & dagger buffs/sword nerfs w/o touching any of the associated UTs.

#234

CDirk and SPirit Dagger really need more love in this game.
I still would prefer no buffs and no nerfs in any tiered weapon. (Only buff CDirk and no other weapon)

#235

Necromantis this threadus! (∩ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)⊃━☆ﾟ. * ･ ｡ﾟ,

(( “”""(I know ur a libtard who wants to take my dps away, but stop making it so obvious.""")))

I mean, you could always FORCE people to not use melee classes by making the boss have insane range, which they have done btw. either that or add more boss defense, but that would probably become ridiculous over time.

People time and time again have proven this to be false, as they usually stay with classes they like, mosty newer players and some experts. Idk how this would improve longevity of content as dungeons like the nest don’t have anyone doing them, class diversity and dagger/katana buffs won’t help this all that much.

I guess I like this, I would prefer it consider dps of the group though.

Not all change is good change, but I do agree on adding newish stuff to the game so that it doesn’t become mega ded or more stagnant.

#236

Sound liberal to me.

#237

I cannot believe this thread is still alive considering how long ago niegil’s spoiler post about a hypothetical sword nerf was and that nothing has happened since then.

there’s really only one dungeon that’s so anti-melee that it forces all the sword-gropers into hiding, and that’s LoD. LoD is one of the worst designed dungeons ever and is due for a complete overhaul. despite that, people still bring their melees into it just because that’s what they happen to be on. it also doesn’t help that the only endgame we have features a boss that gets facehugged all the time (MBC) and a boss that is practically made for melees since the platforms are too small for any ranged class to actually act like a ranged class (void). this approach isn’t an option.

believe it or not high def actually makes swords even more desirable than they are against low def targets. because the super high def pushes down the dps of all other weapon types so that they all become similar, while swords still do a decent chunk of damage no matter the defense of the enemy because of the high minumum damage they have compared to every other weapon type. this approach doesn’t work either.

well swords nerfs would be a good change because like it or not, the melee classes are all broken in nearly every aspect, and their weapon damage is one of those aspects.

#238

there was also this a couple weeks ago [Spoilers] Tiered Swords Nerf, Tiered Daggers and Katana Buff and then some stuff

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