Proposed LOD changes

#1

lots of people have taken a stab at this before me, but i’m gonna give it a go, first my proposed UT changes:


Leaf Dragon Hide Armor
DEF: +14
DEX: +6
SPD: +6
fame bonus: 5%
fp: 850

a more extreme and offensive version of csilk, this sacrifices even more def for more boost in spd. this also has an extra dex (compared to hydra) instead of losing one. this is definitely more useful on rogues than most other classes but anyone who can handle spectral cloth can also use this for spd. also the fp has been boosted.


Water Dragon Silk Robe
ATK: +3
DEF:+11
MP: +70
SPD: +5
fame bonus: 5%
fp: 850

not as much change as the leaf hide, but still some notable buffs. slight increase in def to bring the tradeoff of def for spd a little more bearable, also an mp buff unrivaled by any other robe (+15 compared to gsorc). this still sees most usefulness on priest, since priests can usually afford to sacrifice a little def and they are one of the few robe classes that actually can use a lot of mp effectively due to the large mp cost of certain tomes. mystic could probably use this pretty well too. also fp buff


Fire Dragon Battle Armor
DEF: +20
ATK: +3
VIT: +3
SPD: +3
fame bonus: 5%
fp: 850

This one actually gets used so it doesn’t need much of a buff. just a def increase to make it bearable to paladins w/ out oreo or warriors w/ out jugg. also fp boost.


Celestial Blade

unlike the annoying firecracker katana, its ancestor weapon actually seems useful. in short, it behaves similar to dblade. but since the two shots aren’t actually being shot at the same time, it may be possible to move you cursor side-to-side to make more shots hit at a greater distance. also the slight curve to the shots may make this useful for shooting around corners like the Staff of Esben.


Ray Katana
damage: 115-160
fame bonus: 5%
fp: 900

i’ve only shown here what’s been changed, click the link to see what this else this thing does if you don’t know. ray katana doesn’t seem like a bad weapon at first until you see it’s absolutely horrendous base damage. so i’ve simply increased that, as well as fp and the fame bonus, since those seemed equally lacking. it’s still nothing close to being a main weapon, but it’s at least more csword-like than before.

Now for the boss changes:
FIRST, when someone says a color to activate a boss, the altar of draconis should ask to confirm that’s the one you want. something like, “you have chosen Feargus, a difficult path lies before you! is this the one you want?” just to prevent random trolls from picking the wrong color, and to give some hint toward the fact that picking feargus first makes the dungeon harder.

SECOND, the dungeon is very anti-melee. so much so that they are basically completely useless. while this does give players motivation to play other classes, it does make it so that melees that happen to come anyway are just wasting space and stealing loot. so some changes i have for that are:
#remove paralyze immunity and daze immunity
the bosses really don’t need to be immune to nearly every status effect, daze and paralysis would make it safer for them to get closer AND make it easier for range classes to keep hitting them
#decrease the number or armor break projectiles
that’s whats really keeping everyone away. the absurd amount of armor breaks going around. either decrease the rate of fire on them or decrease the number of projectiles in each wave. it would still be pretty risky for melees to go deep, but not so risky that they all leech.

lastly, the loot.
just increase the stat pot distribution so lots of people get pots and slightly buff the tops drop rate. between dragonscale cloths, mystic sts, buffed whites, and this; the risk:reward ratio should be fine IMO

your thoughts? anything i left out or shouldn’t have mentioned?

Proposition to Buff LOD Whites (the armors)
Give Ray Katana A Buff!
#2

yes, most pointless high tier dungeon

thing needs a damn loot rework

#3

yes it very anti melee and needs a rework. But for the items, i feel that leaf is a bit too strong . water is ok. fire dragon is ehh, meh ok?

Ray katana is too strong, i feel that its dmg should be like somewhere from 90-100 b/c 115-190 is pretty close to masumune, and 2 extra range is HUGE, and this isnt wands, so you have to make their longer ranges weaker, b/c then what would be the point of longer range classes when everyone has long range weapons that is comparable to cosmics.

#4

I don’t really have any experience with item balancing so I’m just gonna leave it at that.

The only problem I see is how the system will determine if the ‘majority’ of the group wants said boss. What I’d like to see is something like the traps in tombs; if the majority of people are touching a door, that door will open. For example, if most of the people in a LOD wants to do Feargus, they will have to touch Feargus’ door. The Altar will do some sort of countdown before ‘taking in the numbers’. This might present a problem when there are an even number of people, but still.

I don’t think paralyzed really help melees per say, because I know at least for Red that it’s easier to hit when he’s following you than his stationary phase.

The whole point of the LOD at the time was making an anti-melee dungeon, which was in itself, addressing a more deeply rooted problem of a melee-power-creep. Personally, I think it’s a horrible decision to make a dungeon that discriminates certain classes but I understand Kabam’s thinking behind it. It’s kinda like treating the pain but ignoring the cancer within.

#5

so i was going to say something but i forgot so, ummm… i didnt want to delete this comment, so i was going to comment on how nicely the sewers were made, making it a disadvantage for melees on boss.

#6

i get that lod is supposed to be super anti-melee, im not saying reduce the armor breaks to the point where melees are helpful or preferred, just to the point where they’re not useless

#7

But i thought LOD’s theme was “garbage uts”.

#8

well rn they arent useless, ther are almost useless other than buffs and tanking.

#9

My Thoughts
Items changes

*Lead Hide
I really like the leaf hide change, it would probably be the best armour for rogue if it was implemented.

*Dragon Silk
You made dragon silk slightly more viable but it still probably wouldn’t see that much more play.

*Fire Dragon Armour
Personally I don’t think the fire armour needs to be buffed at all, it already serves a purpose so buffing would kinda be pointless imo.

*Celestial
K

*Ray Katana
So ray katana is just gonna be slightly better than a masamune +1.92 range? Seems pretty viable, It would definitely get used more and be considered a real weapon in the ninja arsenal.

Dungeon Changes

*Dragon Confirmation
I guess it would kinda prevent trolling but at the same time it’s not fool proof since the supposed ‘troll’ can just say ‘yes’ or whatever to confirm.

*Making the Dungeon melle friendly
In LOD current state, I would say like 99% of melles help with green and blue to a extent. Red is possible to be done by a melle too but takes some balls, the real problem is black. Unfortunately even if the things you recommended were implemented the number of melles helping on black won’t increase by much.

*Loot Buff
This is something everyone can agree on. The dungeon is very time consuming and unrewarding right now so I would be down for that.

#10

A very simple way to buff loot would be to make at least one pot guaranteed per boss (like have 1 guaranteed Def on Feargus, one guaranteed Spd on Limoz, etc, …) and make hard mode increase drop rates slightly. Right now you could solo the whole thing on hard mode and still get nothing for your trouble.

#11

what? ray katana is super strong if this was changed . Like its basically the range of a archer now with a decent dmging weapon that pierces.

#12

So in other words, like any other mid-high level dungeon in the game.

I like the idea of,

Feargus => def
Limoz => speed
Pyrhh => bit
Blue (fock, always forget name) => wis

though.

Also, hard mode could guarantee two of said stat pot, though you could argue the chance for UTs are good enough loot upgrade. Well not really because they suck, save the star.

#13

Did I say it wouldn’t be strong?

#14

no you didnt?

#15

Beyond confused rn

#16

Okay, first of all, it’s nice to find some great ideas concerning the Lair of Draconis, which in my opinion is a dungeon that needs some tweaks to get the best out of it, the rebalance of the UTs, which is very needed sounds pretty fine considering that it’s more a buff rather than something else, but I’d point out a very specific opinion about Ray Katana, which is the katana that has the highest range in the game, and which shouldn’t be given with such privilege of high damage (Leading to a low-risk exchange for a decent DPS), so a suggestion about it would be the removal of the pierce ability, that way you would only be able to hit one target while using it, but you would still have the high range, leaving a situational UT instead of a replacement for Masamune.

About the dungeon itself, the option to choose the order is a good thing rather than a bad one, because even if the dungeon is not impossible, the rewards are way too low compared to the risk it takes. But this being said, it would be nice to tweak the hard mode bosses separately, and here are my two cents:

  • Overall: Make hard mode bosses to drop at least a guaranteed potion, increased chance of white bags, removal of the loot chest (Which is the main reason of leeching here, and what breaks the dungeon to its most) and please make everyone drop The World Tarot Card (tyvm). Removal of Daze immunity is fine, but I consider that being able to paralyze the dragons would turn them into punchbags and decrease the dungeon’s difficulty exponentially.

  • Feargus: Decrease the amount of projectiles that cause armor break, and remove the “Invisible” pattern, or at least decrease its spammability, it doesn’t make the fight any more difficult, but instead, annoying to deal with. Feargus can drop a defense potion as a guaranteed loot.

  • Pyrr: Pyrr fight is somewhat easy to deal with as you only have to dodge and its bullets are quite sloy, so personally I don’t think it needs to be changed much, probably waiting a little moment after all the Crimson Soul Shards (minions) have been killed, so it doesn’t charge immediately?. It could drop a vit potion.

  • Nikao: What makes Nikao unfriendly is the fact that you have to leave only one Azure Soul Shard alive if you have low DPS, so probably decreasing the amount of healing power of the minions would be better. It could drop a wis potion.

  • Limoz: Limoz can be easily considered the easiest dragon when you have a great party, however, its healing power is so high that soloing it is a very difficult task, so probably a better tweak would be to slightly increase its hp (from 110000 to 150000) and reducing the healing of the shields while they circle, and giving a longer moment to deal damage to the dragon after all the abundant shields have been killed, before Limoz spawns them again (This way, more classes would be able to deal damage to Limoz). It can drop a spd pot.

  • Ivory Wyvern: The fight against the Ivory Wyvern is very entertaining, as you could be taking a high risk to deal against it, however, what makes it less appealing is the fact that you could solo it, only to receive one or two dex pots, so a better way to make it attractive would be giving it a guaranteed loot of a mana pot, or also add more chances to drop Att/Def pots, and having the increased white bag chance from the hard mode, this would encourage players to actually give it a shot.

  • About players choosing the order: This is a point that I didn’t want to change because it’s a good thing to give the players the chance to choose the difficulty of the dungeon, considering that not everyone might be looking for a Midnight Star (Which is the main reason of doing Ivory Wyvern in a first place), so making the bosses have an increased chance to drop white bags during hard mode would encourage players to choose the difficult way for a higher reward!

  • Last but not least, the melee-friendly issue: Melees are for sure not the best choice for this dungeon, and the fact that the loot chest was implemented in this dungeon leaves them as leechers more than any kind of help, this being said, the melees have chances to contribute against most of dragons, Feargus being the exception. However, this doesn’t leave them useless, as it’s possible to deal some damage despite the low range. But I remain clear when I say that it’s rather a possitive thing that this dungeon is more appealing for ranged classes.

TL;DR: Wall of text about Warloy wanting The World TC.

#17

Good stuff, I enjoyed reading it! (welcome to forums as well :wink:)

Did you mean what we discussed or the current system?

Somewhere along the way, we talked about the idea of having a consensus rather than the first person that happens to load in. Right now, people can ‘troll’ by either choosing black with a small, melee group or choose one of the other three to deprive others of a chance at the Midnight Star.

I had an idea where after the first player loads in, the Altar of Draconis begins a countdown, from, say, 20. Players ‘hug’ (i.e. touch) the wall of the respective dragon they wish to fight, so whatever door that’s opened better reflects what the group wants.

#18

Thank you kindly, this post made me log in for the first time in the forums after reading threads for some time actually.

Meant the current one, making the drops more tempting would influence the willing of each player to encourage the hard mode. However trolling is something that can’t be ignored.[quote=“UnicornSla, post:17, topic:2318”]
I had an idea where after the first player loads in, the Altar of Draconis begins a countdown, from, say, 20. Players ‘hug’ (i.e. touch) the wall of the respective dragon they wish to fight, so whatever door that’s opened better reflects what the group wants.
[/quote]

If this could be implemented, it could be very useful, as it would take the opinion of most players instead of only one. Has this mechanic been implemented or tested in any other part of the game before?

#19

Hmm, that’s a good point. I’m sure we could find something that addresses the issue of ‘trollers’, and invent an implementable system of ‘voting’.

Edit: To answer your question, not that I’m aware of right now, I’m thinking :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Edit2: @Warloy Do you remember the trap switches in tombs? I have no idea how they work, but if I remember correctly, they can ‘remember’ who was on it,

  • You stand on a trap switch for 2 seconds.

  • I come, and stand on the switch. Right after I’m in position, you get off it.

  • I can still ‘finish’ the time for you, the timer will still be at 2 seconds, and I only need to stand for another second.

The only issue would be tie-breakers, but I guess people will figure it out and work it out amongst themselves from boredom.

#20

Actually the issue here would be the fact that if someone enters the dungeon before you, they still have a chance to choose since the timer would count the tile (As, the Tomb trap tile) being activated or not, instead of the amount of players stepping over it. If a voting system is implemented it obviously needs to count the amount of players rather than the time of an action.
Another solution I was thinking of, is the use of the Shatter’s switches, making them spawn in front of each wall each time that a choice was needed, with a decent amount of HP/Def, that way players could focus fire right towards the color they’d want to choose. But this would make players with higher DPS to have a higher influence, so it’s also a flaw.
Still thinking about a valid and solid voting system.