Shinobi

[BaconSM]

I don’t think the information I’ve presented is in a manner where if you have read it carefully, you would still not understand.

Also saying that “I dont get it” tells me nothing on what to elaborate. What you’ve posted here is basically a shitpost.

[BaconSM]

the sprites right now are not even too bad in my opinion lol.

They are god awful. I used to make a lot of sprites, but I’ve lost my touch.

[Kingsports]

Liked purely for the intro paragraph . And I feel like we don’t see a lot of these ideas these days, so thank you for that! As for the class:

HP: 700
MP: 271
ATK: 75
DEF: 25
SPD: 65
DEX: 75
VIT: 50
WIS: 65

The MP bothers me. Weird number and just 19 more than most classes, not even a clean 20?? With 10 more dps stats than ninja, it is easily top damage of all Katana classe (I assume this is a leather, so I’m free to compare it more to ninja than Samurai?) and has the highest base spd in exchange for 20 less hp, 10 less vit, and 5 less wis than ninja?

Kusarigama:
First of all, sweet sprite and I adore the animation of scythe, so I would absolutely love to see this kind of concept as a mainstay for a class . I don’t want to judge the concept too hard based on the t0 alone, since the difference between t0s and t7s varies vastly depending on the ability.

Mechanically: Do you think the cripple might be something that gets added on and increases in duration as you go up the tiers (like expose on Samurai)? This seems like a lot for a t0 ability if you don’t plan on that kind of progression. What is the max range for a kusarigama? Something around 5.5 like scythe? And does that increase up the tiers? Will it have a bigger hook on the end? I assume the chain and hook would all have the same damage and effect regardless of where you hit (no sweetspot like scythe?). And it has infinite range once hooked? Will it break at a certain range or when obstructed by walls/obstacles? If it does break prematurely, will the cripple still happen? Bleed does 20 dps like it does on players? I feel like you could remove that effect while latched and just increase the latched damage.

I was initially against a dmg/s w/o a cost, but the inability to heal mp while held is an interesting way to balance this. Would enemies still take held damage when invulnerable (I assume you can hold it through invulnerable phases)? The dmg/s isn’t insane compared to poisons, so this feels ok. I’m very wary about how much total damage this does as it scales (with tiers) because the best part of this is definitely cripple. I’m glad you decided to go with projectile lifetime instead of speed. This seems cool and reasonably balanced. I don’t know the the debuff reduction is necessary, but it definitely makes cripple more universally appealing.

Conclusion: I would rather see slightly lower att on the class with high dex (something like 65/75) to oppose Samurai and let ninja keep the crown for the highest DPS katana since this has a useful debuff in its base kit . Also, give it a normal max mp please. The ability is unique and useful, but needs a small amount of fleshing out. 7/10

Edit: Most of my questions were addressed. Mp was adjusted and att was toned down. Ability looks great and looks to be much more balanced than it’s initial conception. Easily 9/10 great class would love to see this as the third katana class.

[Gabvrielo]

I like the idea! Generally same thoughts as Kingsports in terms of the design.

I got a few concerns though because this came up in a previous discussion I had.

Crippled:
Projectiles fired from enemies that are crippled will lose 20% of it’s lifetime, meaning shorter range. All debuffs that the projectile inflicts will only last 50% as long.

For enemy shots that have amplitude and frequency it may affect it such that it messes up safe spots or areas which you could dodge, this is regardless if it was projectile speed or lifetime. A simple fix would be to include that such enemies could be immune to cripple though.

How all tiered kusarigamas work:
When you press spacebar, it will swing out a chain and projectile like the soulcursed scythe. The chain is there for cosmetic reasons only (does no damage). The kusarigama blade latches onto ONE enemy, and you must hold your spacebar for it to stay latched onto the enemy. It will do impact damage, and continuous damage per second when latched. The enemy hit will be inflicted with bleeding (upon being hit and will bleed while latched), and when you retract the kusarigama, it will inflict a new debuff called “crippled”. If the enemy is killed, you automatically retract your kusarigama. When you hold your spacebar, you will not expend mp/second because the kusarigama only hits one enemy, but while it is latched, you will not regenerate MP.

Is there a maximum range? It feels like you can use this as a poison sort of thing where you cast it once, leave the room and still deal damage.

That’s all my concerns for now aside from some more niche details like armor and stuff. Good stuff

[Platformz]

And if we want to get technical, a samurai is just an armored ninja with less honor.

Wait, Samurai had less honor than a ninja?

[BaconSM]

Liked purely for the intro paragraph

Thank you. If this were an actual presentation btw, that is exactly what I would’ve said in person.

The MP bothers me.

It’s 19 more than most classes because the max mana gained per level is 1 more (2-9 vs 2-8) than all classes. I don’t really know why I did this tbh. I think I should just make it 252 like other classes. I think what was going on in my head was that it had 20 less HP so I gave it more MP. Also it has 65 SPD not 75. You misread it there. I’m not sure if the stats are the most balanced thing in the world. TBH, I really only made this idea because we needed a female Katana class.

(I assume this is a leather,

Forgot to say that yes, it is a leather.

First of all, sweet sprite

Thanks, but it’s not that good.

I adore the animation of scythe

Who doesn’t?

I don’t want to judge the concept too hard based on the t0 alone

I only had time to sprite the T0 because I had to go pick up my graduation gown and turn in the textbooks and shit. Took me all day.

Do you think the cripple might be something that gets added on and increases in duration as you go up the tiers

Honestly, I think that I won’t use cripple on low tier Kusarigama’s, just like how low tier quivers slow and not paralyze. I only had the cripple there so people see how it would go for a Kusarigama.

What is the max range for a kusarigama?

Can’t believe I forgot the fucking range out of all things.

Will it break at a certain range or when obstructed by walls/obstacles? If it does break prematurely, will the cripple still happen? Bleed does 20 dps like it does on players? I feel like you could remove that effect while latched and just increase the latched damage.

All very good questions. I will edit OP to fulfill these.

(I assume you can hold it through invulnerable phases)?

Why not. Helps instas LOL.

I’m glad you decided to go with projectile lifetime instead of speed.

i was about to go with both lifetime AND speed, but having slow lingering shots messes up a lot of shit. Maybe a UT Kusarigama would affect speed for those fast moving shots? Who knows.

I would rather see slightly lower att on the class with high dex (something like 65/75) to oppose Samurai and let ninja keep the crown for the highest DPS katana since this has a useful debuff in its base kit

Reasonable.

[BaconSM]

Less honor referring to the armored ninja. Samurais had more honor than ninjas, quite frankly, because the tactics that ninjas used were douchey.

[Platformz]

Oh, I got confused cause of the phrasing. Carry on ^-^

[BaconSM]

Yeah I know that wasnt phrased well at all LMAO. In my defense, I’m esl.

[BaconSM]

For enemy shots that have amplitude and frequency it may affect it such that it messes up safe spots or areas which you could dodge, this is regardless if it was projectile speed or lifetime. A simple fix would be to include that such enemies could be immune to cripple though.

OR the shinobi can just not press spacebar. Just like how RL’s tell mystics not to stasis sometimes.

Is there a maximum range?

I forgot the range. I’m not very clever, you see.

[Kingsports]

Also it has 65 SPD not 75

I just meant the fastest katana class (ninja has base 60) (but yes, what ninja is ever not speedy I know I know)

Good chance i come back and edit my review when you get the chance to update/clarify

[BaconSM]

you get the chance to update

I’m working on it.

[WanDwarfV]

Crippled:
Projectiles fired from enemies that are crippled will lose 20% of it’s lifetime, meaning shorter range. All debuffs that the projectile inflicts will only last 50% as long.

The debuffs effect is fine. A bit iffy about the lifetime tho. DECA might just spam the immunity on every single boss, similar to paralyze and stun, which already ruin boss patterns anyways.

[Kingsports]

So when I get access to my computer again I’ll edit my previous and cross out addressed things. Thank you for changing mp .

So as it stands the ability is definitely a bit overpowered. I would either lean into damage or the cripple. Right now the bleed/latch damage is pretty nuts and the mp cost definitely doesn’t scale appropriately right now (t2 and 3 both 70 mp?). I get that poisons/ assassin need a rework/buff, but I feel like this passive damage that can be kept up ad infinitum (and I assume is immune to quiet and silence since no mp cost?) should not outdo the damage poisons do over time. I think it’s fair for it to be a little lower (like t0 was) if keeping up the latch requires skill on the player’s part (have to stay within a certain distance-something like 6 squares- or you lose the latch without lingering bleed/cripple). If latch is going to be this big at the very least the initial cost needs to be much larger (more like +15 or 20 in cost every tier).

[XBookwyrmX]

OR the shinobi can just not press spacebar. Just like how RL’s tell mystics not to stasis sometimes.

No offense, but what makes you think that everyone is going to listen obediently, let alone the fact that not all runs are held by RLs? Also, public running still exists.

On a separate note, I’ve read ideas that similarly wanted to mess with amplitude of enemy shots, but it’s always made slightly uncomfortable, even excluding major boss fights that could theoretically have immunities to such abuse. I’m thinking of enemies where slipping through shots that have had some time to spread out is important, especially those shotguns that tend to be narrow.

Don’t get me wrong! I like most of the rest of the idea. It’s just that that particular effect has always been a can of worms to me, so it’s not targeted at you, specifically.

[Kingsports]

slipping through shots that have had some time to spread out is importan

Wouldn’t this only be an issue if you messed with projectile speed? (That is what bard changes and why that messes with shot patterns). Wouldn’t projectile lifetime make shots just not travel as far, at the same speed? (I admit I don’t understand how this affects boomerang shots).

[XBookwyrmX]

It depends on the context. It still affects how the enemy shots travel. Even if all that was happening was shots traveling at lower distances, as you put it, it may be more difficult to get through a condensed shotgun.

Amplitude would be a little different. As an idea for how it affects shots, the reason that Staffs have an amplitude in their stats on Realmeye is to show how wide of a pattern they deviate from the invisible meridian line. They make “waves,” which would wobble farther, the higher the amplitude. If you increased the amplitude of a common Ghost God, for instance, its shots may more resemble (not strictly copy) something like the Sprite Wand per shot. It would probably be uncomfortable to deal with a sudden change like that, especially as a newer player!

[BaconSM]

T2 and T3 both 70 MP because i didnt finish doing T3.

It would probably be uncomfortable to deal with a sudden change like that, especially as a newer player!

I might have to come up with an equation to keep only the range decreased while affecting amp and freq as little as possible. Unfortunately, I failed pre calc, so… no promises.

EDIT1: By testing on Haizor’s weapon editor, I think you can just decrease the frequency by 20% as well, so the shot pattern remains the same (only range is changed). Posted some examples on OP.

[Kingsports]

The fact that the forum home page doesn’t show you there has been any activity when the OP edits their post is very annoying. A lot was changed, and all for the better Imo. Great class with a thought out ability.

[Gabvrielo]

The fact that the forum home page doesn’t show you there has been any activity when the OP edits their post

Man this has also bothered me for quite a while, although I guess putting in a comment for update gives a bit of leniency towards edits, as some edits may just be some typos or small updates. (could possibly be abusable maybe to keep a topic constantly up too? but this is mostly speculation).

Edit: Also I would recommend the changelog could be put in the “hide details” but that’s mainly just personal preference. Additionally:

EDIT: Several people discussed how only changing the lifetime would alter the shot path. I did not know that lifetime changed the frequency, but now that I do, the easy fix is to also decrease the frequency by 20%.

I appreciate the solution towards this, I made a similar post trying to make something like Drowsy (Much like crippled range debuff) or an “Uninspired” debuff but this solution never really occurred to me! Big props for that.