Twilight Gemstone Rework/Buff Idea

#1

Hey, just wanted to start a discussion as well as share some of my own ideas on this ring since it feels disconnected from the love the other 2 whitebag items from shatters get. This is especially important since the shatters rework has been talked about so heavily recently (I’m by the way personally really hoping for T7 rings when that happens since we got T6 with Shatters 1.0)

Here is my personal idea for a rework/buff with some explanations since this might be a little controversial:

+300 HP
+150 MP
On Ability Use: Deals damage to self equal to 5% of your max HP

Ok… so… I understand that putting 300 HP on a ring seems insane but let’s take a wizard for example, base 670 HP. This ring would bring you up to 970 HP, melee class with deca ring territory. However, the ring would mean you would take 46 damage on every single spell use which is quite substantial and could severely handicap your damage output (as well as your survivability if you’re not careful). This is why I had no problem adding 150 MP to this ring, since it is supposed to be a mana-based ring because of the original. The mana bonus means that most of the time, your mana is not really the problem, instead your health is which is the goal of this rework idea. It’s also quite cool that the mana bonus somewhat invites you to use your ability as much as possible… at your own risk. I am still 100% undecided on whether I should bring the DEF and SPD bonuses from the old version to the new one but I left it without them to make it easier to read. Anyway, please feel free to give me your opinions :slight_smile:

#2

Twilight Gemstone?

#3

hahahah its such a useless item I literally forgot the name lol

#4

I don’t see why a rework of the gemstone is needed since the ring as is is already better than both other rings from the Shatters. I also hate the idea of this ‘buff’ as it actively punishes you for using your ability and if you’re mundane then you just have an overpowered +300 HP. HP fetish is already too much

#5

are we all talkin about the same ring here?? i thought i just saw you say that gemstone is better than both bracer and crown.

#6

yes

#7

  1. You straight up capping on that first point, gemstone is barely usable on 2 classes and unusable on the rest of the classes

  2. I always understood that this enables people to use the rings survivability in order to leech without using their ability, that is literally the point of the HP fetish you mentioned. Still, I think this ring can be even more useful for non-leechers and is overall somewhat balanced

  3. It does not punish your ability use, it gives you mana to use your ability more, encouraging you to use your ability, as well as giving you the HP to use it, you just need to be careful

#8

now, i’m a man of open mindedness and always go for “if you have fun, then yaaaay” rather than “best set in the game”. i do think that gemstone has its moments on classes that can spam high dps abilities that can also have the opportunity to make up for the loss of hp if someone were to choose twilight over a more defensive ring. necro is a great example of this (kinda). necro has his tiered skulls which offer him hp, combine that up with a soulless (?) or even magicians robe/esben robe and boom. you got a decent amount of hp and mp (from gemstone).

But I wouldnt even say that 1% of this community would agree that gemstone is better than both crown and bracer (btw, this is coming from a guy that used forgotten ring on a necro for a while). crown is definitely kinda overrated, but bracer is just a very optimal ring. Crown is a niche ring, where as bracer is pretty much universal. Gemstone, however, is even more specialized than crown (and not in a good way). This is like saying that sphinx is better than both nile and pyra. Sphinx desperately needs a buff just to keep on par with pyra/nile, and I think the same principal should be applied to gemstone.

edit: okay i guess my internet didnt want to send the whole message all at once

#9

I guess gemstone has its rare moments but even in the rarest of moments, sourcestone still reigns supreme, the choice of 6 DEF vs. 110HP is an easy choice for almost everyone. It needs a rework… bad. That’s why I came up with this idea, not claiming that it’s bulletproof or anything

#10

You say that like it’s a fact.

The point of using HP rings is to…leech? Why are you even advocating for leeching in the first place? You’re right that it can be useful for non-leechers by being completely broken, though.

How can it not be punishing you using your ability or giving you the HP to use it if it just takes it away from you. The ring is still broken for mundane users as well.

There’s no loss of HP, you’re at the amount of HP you’re supposed to have.

The same principal should not be applied to gemstone, the reason gemstone outshines sphinx so much is because gemstone has a speed boost along with it’s other useful stats. Gemstone also replaces the useless Wisdom boost with Defence.

This is true, with Sourcestone being one of the best rings in the game, but with good reason. Sourcestone comes from a dungeon more difficult and endgame than the Shatters and would of course have better stats than any rings from the Shatters, which it does. Sourcestone, like Gemstone, is also the best ring from their respective dungeon or set of dungeons.

#11

yea no i get what you mean man. i had a similar idea for bloodshed ring a while ago and the toughest part is thinking of a rework that general public are on board with it (even tho it’ll never come to prod lol). regardless, it’s a fun practice and lets your mind be more creative.

#12

you didnt read my sentence. here’s what i said

pssst

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anyways, what i’m saying is that if you were to choose gemstone (which offers NO hp) over a defensive ring that DOES offer hp, classes like necro can “cushion” themselves (due to their skulls hp bonus and robe options) in the hp department if they were to pick gemstone over a defensive ring.

edit: that’s what i meant by “loss of hp”

#13

Aitait, you’ve somewhat explained what you mean but I’m gonna run this down by your points in order of your last reply:

  1. “You say that like it’s a fact.”

It is a fact, get with it

  1. “The point of using HP rings is to…leech? Why are you even advocating for leeching in the first place? You’re right that it can be useful for non-leechers by being completely broken, though.”

I’m not advocating for leeching, if you think so you are uncapable of reading between the lines of my messages. Besides, if everyone leeched nothing would get done, I do not understand why you would make this assumption

  1. “How can it not be punishing you using your ability or giving you the HP to use it if it just takes it away from you. The ring is still broken for mundane users as well.”

The “Mundane” users are not gonna be a thing once the fame rework hits lol + I already explained why I think it’s not punishing ability use but only shifting how it works, increasing the skill cap of timing ability use for great results

4.“There’s no loss of HP, you’re at the amount of HP you’re supposed to have”

That’s a weird point, why do rings even exist if the base stats are what you’re supposed to have

  1. “The same principal should not be applied to gemstone, the reason gemstone outshines sphinx so much is because gemstone has a speed boost along with it’s other useful stats. Gemstone also replaces the useless Wisdom boost with Defence.”

Gemstone does outshine sphinx… but that doesn’t say anything about how good Gemstone is more than it says how bad Sphinx is, almost anything outshines Sphinx. Also… wisdom boost useless? bruh

6.“This is true, with Sourcestone being one of the best rings in the game, but with good reason. Sourcestone comes from a dungeon more difficult and endgame than the Shatters and would of course have better stats than any rings from the Shatters, which it does. Sourcestone, like Gemstone, is also the best ring from their respective dungeon or set of dungeons.”

This… is one of the points I somewhat agree with. Yes, at the moment Sourcestone should be better than Gemstone. However, I intended the Gemstone rework to coincide with the Shatters rework which I hope will make the dungeon far more dangerous and removing stupid things like 1. boss being a literal dps check and getting to 2. boss taking 3 years compared to the rest of the dungeon.

#14

I made the assumption because nearly nothing gets done because nearly everyone leeches and if there’s no rusher to complete the dungeon in under 2 minutes then nearly everyone will nexus because no one is patient enough to clear.

All you’re doing is going backwards by adding a HP bonus and then an effect which removes HP

I was addressing his strange wording

All the Shatters rework will do is make the dungeon worse and add a honey sceptre easter egg. Shatters is already perfect as is and is my favourite dungeon in the game and I dread the day it gets reworked.

#15

the only reason why you like shatters is because of the difficulty to loot ratio. i dont even think saying “shatters is boring” is a subjective statement anymore. it is a crummy, quick dungeon mock up created by kabam just so they could make some quick bucks. that was it. you can literally see the effort and care kabam put into that dungeon: not that much. shatters isn’t even a dungeon, it’s just a corruptive remnant left from kabam.

#16

Same reply system as last time, im too lazy to program in quotation boxes

  1. “I made the assumption because nearly nothing gets done because nearly everyone leeches and if there’s no rusher to complete the dungeon in under 2 minutes then nearly everyone will nexus because no one is patient enough to clear.”

This is true, all of it is true. However, nothing in that quote contradicts what I said, so why even bring it up? Too many people leech and the point of the ring is not to make it easier to leech but rather make it easier to get in and not leech

  1. “All you’re doing is going backwards by adding a HP bonus and then an effect which removes HP”

Yes… like… yes, it gives more HP than a tiered ring excactly because it then removes it. You have correctly spotted the point yet made an incorrect conclusion

  1. “I was addressing his strange wording”

Just like I was addressing yours

  1. “All the Shatters rework will do is make the dungeon worse and add a honey sceptre easter egg. Shatters is already perfect as is and is my favourite dungeon in the game and I dread the day it gets reworked.”

This final point has to be trolling… Shatters is a heap of hot garbage with weird mechanics and broken exploits, used to be fun back in 2016 but only because we didn’t know anything better. Now we do. I don’t think I’ll reply again since you’ve already said that gemstone is better than crown and that shatters is good. Your credibility is gone.

#17

Are you assuming the reason I like Shatters? I like the Shatters because it’s a fun dungeon. Simple as that.

Yes, it makes no sense to even have it then and you might as well keep it as an MP increasing ring because if you just choose not to use your ability then you’re way too powerful.

ok

That’s hilarious.

#18

Ughhh I really don’t want to respond but it’s just too damn easy, kinda fun too

  1. I won’t talk about the whole “Shatters is a fun dungeon” thing since that’s up to personal opinion

  2. The whole giving you HP and then removing it is too much of a simplified way to look at this idea. It does give you HP and then it lets you choose when it’s removed, requiring judgement and timing. If you choose not to use your ability you will never be powerful, using your ability is much more useful than the +110 HP bonus this ring gives over Deca.

Anyway, anyone reading this will understand what we’re arguing about so it really doesn’t make sense to keep saying the same things with different words

#19

Discord raids prove otherwise.

#20

Screw discord raids